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Bleaksoul Brethren
PatrickDiomedes
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PatrickDiomedes
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PostSubject: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 00:59

So, like i said in the description, I'm new to actually playing 40k. In the past I've stuck to modeling, converting, and painting. But now that my DE army is almost finished, I figured I'd try to actually play with it.

Total=998 points

HQ (280 points)

-Archon (145 points)
--Huskblade, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, Soul Trap, Splinter Pistol

-Haemonculus (135 points)
--Upgrade to Ancient, Casket of Flensing, Liquifier Gun, Huskblade, Splinter Pistol

Troops (500 Points)

-Kabalite Warriors x10 (205 points)
--Blaster, Splinter Cannon
--Raider
--Sybarite
---Agoniser, Splinter Pistol

-Kabalite Warriors x10 (200 Points)
--Shredder, Dark lance
--Raider
--Sybarite
---Power Weapon, Splinter Pistol

-Wracks x4 (95 Points)
--Venom


Fast Attack (103 points)

-Reavers x3 (103 points)
--Arena Champion upgrade
---Venom Blade
--Grav Talon, Heat Lance

Heavy Support (115 Points)

-Talos Pain Engine (115 points)
--Twin Linked Heat Lance, Twin-linked liquifier gun


Thoughts? Comments? I've honestly never played 40k before so I'd appreciate any help.


Last edited by PatrickDiomedes on Tue Sep 09 2014, 05:28; edited 1 time in total
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 02:44

I like it. Where do you plan to put the Archon and the haemonculus and what upgrades are you giving the raiders/ venoms?
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PatrickDiomedes
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 03:13

The Haemongulus would go in the Venom with the Wracks, but I haven't figured out where the Archon goes yet, since both of the raiders would be full. There wasn't any room in the list for upgrades for the Raiders and Venoms, points wise. Though I might try and fiddle around with that a bit.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 03:22

I'd drop the arena champion from the reavers and the husk blade on the haemonc for something more evil but cheaper. My haemocs tend to die easily 6+ armor. And I'd rather he die than my archon
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PatrickDiomedes
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 03:23

Yeah, the husk blade was just because i couldn't really think of what else to give him, to be honest.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 03:28

Two suggestions are the mindphase gauntlet or flesh gauntlet (10 and 20 points respectively) which can cause an unpleasant day for monsters
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PatrickDiomedes
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 03:36

I'll probably go with the mindphase gauntlet, since that frees up some points for Raider upgrades. I've already put chain snares on the raider that I have, so that'll be one of them
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 04:36

Welcome to the Dark City patrick!

A couple things:

1. It's actually against the rules to post the individual costs of upgrades along with troops points cost. It's ok to give the overall points cost of a model or unit, just not the breakdown. Games Workshop get's mean when it comes to copyright.

2. Generally, when asking for assistance, it helps to specify how competitive/casual you'd like your list to be. Whereas one person might give you one or two tips if you're making a casual list, another person might completely break your list down piece by piece if you want to make it ultra competitive.

Good luck!
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PatrickDiomedes
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 05:30

BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Welcome to the Dark City patrick!

A couple things:

1. It's actually against the rules to post the individual costs of upgrades along with troops points cost. It's ok to give the overall points cost of a model or unit, just not the breakdown. Games Workshop get's mean when it comes to copyright.

2. Generally, when asking for assistance, it helps to specify how competitive/casual you'd like your list to be. Whereas one person might give you one or two tips if you're making a casual list, another person might completely break your list down piece by piece if you want to make it ultra competitive.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info on the points cost rule. I've edited the post to remove all the individual upgrades point costs.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 06:12

You caught me in a mood, so I'll go over this whole thing.
I personally don't sweat the competitive/casual spectrum. I mostly care about what works, and will just make comments about that.
If you find anything too competitive than simply take less advice Very Happy


PatrickDiomedes wrote:
-Archon (145 points)
--Huskblade, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, Soul Trap, Splinter Pistol

-Haemonculus (135 points)
--Upgrade to Ancient, Casket of Flensing, Liquifier Gun, Huskblade, Splinter Pistol
Both of these are okay builds (though I personally think trying to make a combat Haem is not optimal.

That said, you literally only have space in a ride for one of these guys.
That makes no sense whatsoever, as a walking DE IC is a dead DE IC. I would drop one of them entirely - you only really need one HQ at 1,000 points anyway. Check out the price for these guys, and then check out the price you're paying fro entire units + transport below.
Seriously - just drop one.

Also, just on a personal note, I'd take the Shattershard over the Casket any day.

PatrickDiomedes wrote:
-Kabalite Warriors x10 (205 points)
--Blaster, Splinter Cannon
--Raider
--Sybarite
---Agoniser, Splinter Pistol
This is an okay build. I'd personally suggest that you take a Venom Blade over an Agoniser though. It's cheaper and performs basically as well or better when it comes to how much it's killing. The current edition kind of boned over the Agoniser as far as being the ultimate weapon of choice for DE.

Frankly, I wouldn't even take the Syb, as by the time these guys are in assault you've probably already blown something, but if you want an assault Syb I'd take the v.blade.

I'd probably also invest in a flickerfield - the saved points fromt he Agoniser easily net you that and the v.blade.

PatrickDiomedes wrote:
-Kabalite Warriors x10 (200 Points)
--Shredder, Dark lance
--Raider
--Sybarite
---Power Weapon, Splinter Pistol
I dislike this build.
The shredder is a close range anti-infantry weapon.
The dark lance is a long range (heavy) anti-tank weapon. I see little value in having both. I'd tend to suggest swapping the shredder to a blaster or the lance to a s.cannon as each would compliment the other option better.

Same thoughts about assault Sybs.
Same note about wanting maybe some FF action on the boat.

PatrickDiomedes wrote:
-Wracks x4 (95 Points)
--Venom
I'd use some of the saved points from dropping an HQ to buy an extra s.cannon here, it dramatically increases the functionality of the Venom for a very moderate price increase.


PatrickDiomedes wrote:
Fast Attack (103 points)

-Reavers x3 (103 points)
--Arena Champion upgrade
---Venom Blade
--Grav Talon, Heat Lance
Okay...I dislike this build. You're doing what I think is the common error with bikes in that you ant them to be all things. This unit is built to assault weak infantry, constantly turbo-boost to use the Grav Talon, and also wants to shoot mech.
Bwuh?
Seriously, pick at most 2 jobs (and looking at the rest of your army I'd say drop the assault tools and focus on tank hunting with occasional blade vane gimmickery)

Also, frankly, just generic vanes are pretty solid, you could probably serve yourself better by dropping some upgrades and finding the points just for an extra Reaver.

I do think the AC is a good option for the leadership boost, but he's not really a strong need if you're keeping the unit so small and suicide-like in any case.

PatrickDiomedes wrote:
Heavy Support (115 Points)

-Talos Pain Engine (115 points)
--Twin Linked Heat Lance, Twin-linked liquifier gun
I think he's too slow and short ranged to be of much use to your army, but I am fine with his build taken in microcosm. I'd tend to suggest just taking a Ravager, but if you like the Talos give him a whirl - remember to run with him, he'll be playing catchup more than likely.

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 13:42


Excellent advice. I would drop the archon, put dissies/splinetr racks on the raiders (blaster/cannon on warriors), put just a liquifier gun and crucible on the Ancient (drop to three wracks), add the extra cannon to the venom, run a squad of three reavers (no champion) with caltrops blaster, and then get ravs in your HS.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09 2014, 17:00

I second Thor's advice, but was simply too lazy to write it all myself without knowing if you'd be interested in it, as I view it as competitive advice.

I'd definitely drop the second HQ(Haemonculus) as it seems to be superfluous to this list. Also, the wracks COULD be swapped out for Incubi or or grotesques or something with the additional points you have from dropping the haemi. Either one would be a far better escort for your Archon.

Tip: As a general rule, when making a list, you always should weigh any upgrades against what you COULD buy with the cost of those upgrades. As a result, you'll often find that by the time you pay for a seargent upgrade and all their special equipment, you could have purchased a whole other unit of basic troops, or an HQ independant character. The majority of the time, when this is the case, it's better to just buy the second unit of troops.

I generally make my entire list without upgrades(except auto-upgrades like HWG on wyches, and splinter cannons on venoms), and once I'm satisfied with the bulk of my list, I will use any remaining points to purchase upgrades for my HQs, vehicles, and units.
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PatrickDiomedes
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 10 2014, 09:19

Alright, I've been doing some editing of the list, and I think i've made it a bit more viable.

NEW LIST

HQ (170 Points)

-Archon (170 Points)
--Combat Drugs, Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shadow Field, Soul Trap, Splinter Pistol

ELITES (153 points)

-Incubi x4 (153 Points)
--Venom
---Splinter Cannon

30 Points)[/b]

-Kabalite Warriors x10 (205 points)
--Blaster
--Splinter Cannon
--Sybarite
--Raider
---Flickerfield
---Splinter Rack

-Kabalite Warriors x10 (225 Points)
--Blaster
--Splinter Cannon
--Sybarite
---Splinter Pistol
---Venom Blade
--Raider
---Flickerfield
---Splinter Rack

FAST ATTACK (130 Points)

-Scourges x5 (130 Points)
--2 Haywire Blasters

HEAVY SUPPORT (105 Points)

-Talos Pain Engine (105 Points)
--Twin-Linked Liquifier Gun
--Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon

TOTAL=988

I switched out the Reavers for Scourges mainly because I like how they look better, to be perfectly honest. The Archon will go in the Venom with the Incubi.

One of my main problems is that most of the army is already put together, so I'm trying to work with what I have Without buying too much new stuff. I can convert some wracks easily enough with the spare Bloodletter and Talos bits I have lying around. The Incubi are really the only thing I don't currently have. I can still switch out the tail weapon on the talos, since I haven't glued that in yet. I suppose maybe I should've planned the army out before buying stuff, but I had to see if I actually liked how they looked and stuff before deciding to play them.
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 10 2014, 10:31

No incubi yet. Good

Compare these two units:
-Archon (170 Points)
--Combat Drugs, Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shadow Field, Soul Trap, Splinter Pistol
-Incubi x4 (153 Points)
--Venom
---Splinter Cannon
323pts

Archon, huskblade, shadow field 125
3 Grotesques, aberration, venomblade, raider 180
305 pts

Now your Archon is effectively T5 (except in challenge or insta kill) He has FNP from start.

Your unit is going to kill 3,3 marines on charge on average and 2,2 termies. The grot star similary 3,5 marines and 2 termies.

So no big differencies there. But you Archon stays alive more easily. you can laugh at vehicle explosions. In addition You can attack most vehicles.

You could/should get the Venom to other squad and take Raider (dissie) in stead. perhaps even ether sails.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 10 2014, 15:42

@Patrick - the only caution with your current list is it looks a little bit like a Space Marine build to me. What I mean from that is people sometimes start playing DE and don't properly understand how fragile they can be. My concern with your current list is that it looks a little fragile at 1000 points. This is, again, more of a competitive concern and against more fun themed enemy armies it might not even be an issue.

Vasara wrote:
-Archon (170 Points)
--Combat Drugs, Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shadow Field, Soul Trap, Splinter Pistol
-Incubi x4 (153 Points)
--Venom
---Splinter Cannon
323pts

Archon, huskblade, shadow field 125
3 Grotesques, aberration, venomblade, raider 180
305 pts
I highlighted some important numbers.
I actually dislike your Grot unit because, in my opinion, the Archon is not really built as well as he could be and the Raider lacks any upgrades while trying to sneak in a suggestion of affordability. Grots are going to be more expensive than Incubi, that doesn't make them worse than Incubi, both units have strengths and weaknesses compared to each other, and both are viable tools as an assault delivery system. I don't think we need to occlude numbers in the discussion between them.

I, personally, wouldn't use either unit at the 1000 point level, because I consider them both too expensive and too unnecessary at that point level.

I would probably consider the Grots the slightly more competitive option of the two, but with a similar uptick in cost to field them.

I'll also admit, I think your numbers are off as far as the kills go, it's not criminal, but they are certainly low as far as Incubi's kills and may be off on the Grot kills as well.

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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 10 2014, 16:16


In fact a unit of wyches with haywire and a succubus is a pretty flexible squad at 1000 and easy on the points too.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 10 2014, 16:54

Yeah, I've used that at 1000 with solid success.
I'll also admit to using the Baron+Beasts combo, which at about 250 for the build is about as expensive as I care to invest in for 1000.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 point list to get started (Casual)   1000 point list to get started (Casual) I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 12 2014, 10:34

Thor665 wrote:
@Patrick - the only caution with your current list is it looks a little bit like a Space Marine build to me. What I mean from that is people sometimes start playing DE and don't properly understand how fragile they can be. My concern with your current list is that it looks a little fragile at 1000 points. This is, again, more of a competitive concern and against more fun themed enemy armies it might not even be an issue.

Vasara wrote:
-Archon (170 Points)
--Combat Drugs, Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shadow Field, Soul Trap, Splinter Pistol
-Incubi x4 (153 Points)
--Venom
---Splinter Cannon
323pts

Archon, huskblade, shadow field 125
3 Grotesques, aberration, venomblade, raider 180
305 pts
I highlighted some important numbers.
I actually dislike your Grot unit because, in my opinion, the Archon is not really built as well as he could be and the Raider lacks any upgrades while trying to sneak in a suggestion of affordability. Grots are going to be more expensive than Incubi, that doesn't make them worse than Incubi, both units have strengths and weaknesses compared to each other, and both are viable tools as an assault delivery system. I don't think we need to occlude numbers in the discussion between them.

I, personally, wouldn't use either unit at the 1000 point level, because I consider them both too expensive and too unnecessary at that point level.

I would probably consider the Grots the slightly more competitive option of the two, but with a similar uptick in cost to field them.

I'll also admit, I think your numbers are off as far as the kills go, it's not criminal, but they are certainly low as far as Incubi's kills and may be off on the Grot kills as well.

You are right about the incubi kills being too low. It makes the difference more to Incubi side when killing marines or termies.

But the price of Archon. With Incubi PGL is almost mandatory while grots don't need it. Drugs and soultrap can be discussed for both of choices but incubi/Archon star again gains more from those.

Grots in a Raider is onion transport. They are both only there to transport Archon to kill stuff. Kill the Raider and grots still protect Archon.

But in the end I can second your opinion for both of these option to be suboptimal for 1000pts games.

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