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 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE

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BetrayTheWorld
aurynn
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aurynn
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PostSubject: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 28 2014, 22:49

Hey Guys. After getting some gaming experience I finally came up with a list that I really like. I hate spam lists. I know I could have made more "efficient" choices, but I dont want boring spamlists and I think that I have good reasons for taking the units I chose. However I would like to hear your opinions on the matter.

HQ
Archon, SF, Blaster, VB, HWG (115)

TROOPS
10 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, Raider w. DarkLance, FF, SR (185)
10 Kabalite Warriors w. Blaster, Raider w. DarkLance, FF, SR (185)
9 Wyches w. HWG, Raider w. FF, Sails, Dissie (183)

ELITES
8x Incubi, Raider w. FF, ShockProw, Sails, Dissie (256)
4x Blasterborn w. HWG, Venom w. RetroJets (186)

FAST ATTACK
9x Reavers, 3x HeatLance (234)
10x Scourges, 4x HWB (260)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager, FF, NS, 3x DarkLance (125)
Ravager, FF, NS, 3x DarkLance (125)
Razorwing Jetfighter (145)

Now the thoughts behind the list.

Archon goes to Trueborn squad. They act like a prime threat and vehicle killer. Archon is there to provide the SF and extra shot and HWG. They usually hide from sight Either behind another transport or terrain or can DS if it is better tactic for the battle at hand. Vehicle killers plain and simple. Had them take out a Land Raider in one turn. Blasters are assault weapons so... move 6, disembark 6, shoot 5 blasters (or 4 + 1 HWG), charge 8, 5 HWG attacks aaaand dead vehicle... Venom for some poison shots and blocking as I usually disembark and troll the enemy as he cannot ignore this unit, baiting him with the Warlord VP. Its a gamble of course, but I just like it as the SF sometimes proves exceedingly resilient.

Incubi and Wyches will act in concert. Their role is to zip on their sails to enemy backfield to threaten his armour and provide a nasty pressure just by sitting there in that rear-armour area or at his flank in the first turn. Just be careful with facing flamers. Thats why the incubi raider is there. For blocking movement and flamers. Also dont forget that 9 wyches are usually good enough for busting two vehicles in a disordered charge. :-) And lastly, if they turn around to fire on the Wyches/Incubi they will be presenting their side/rear armour to your lances. Really none of those choices is good. Both raiders are equipped with Dissies. For some multishot AP2 threat and it glances most rear armours on 5+, usually with no cover. Might swap back to Lances after some testing. They are not a first turn threat so they should be safe even if you dont get the first turn, but still use that incubi raider to get the 4+ cover for your wych raider. Both Raiders equipped with ShockProws to tank-shock units from cover to charge them. They are here also as counters to drop-pod armies. Wyches for sacrifice, Incubi to give those DSers something to play with. Beware SS termies though. Dont forget that Wyches and their Raider both have Objective Secured, so you can laugh those camping devastators in da face.

Reavers. Companions to Incubi and/or vehicle hunters and/or trolls. They are there to bust armour, provoke charges or draw fire or block advance of troops if necessary. They can get into melta range easily and then hop 2d6. They can encircle a vehicle you just blocked with your vehicle so noone can disembark, poison, etc. I just love when they provoke a charge from Devastators who stay locked with them in combat for several turns. They can bladevane too for some anti-horde use.

Scourges. Usually kept in reserves to replenish lost AT. I dont DS them, just move them from my table edge 12 and fire 24, which is good enough to reach anything I need as enemy usually moves forward by the T2-4. They can also provide some poison. And have plenty ablative wounds. They are there to bust Land raiders and Monoliths and such stuff (with the HayWyches). I usually ignore Land Raiders completely or till everything else is dead, but sometimes I need to bust them.

Ravager. I know that many of you dont use FF, but with the changes to Jink I think its worth it. Reason is that 4+ Jink compared to 5+ Invul is actually useable only in 1-in-6 cases (the 1 pt difference between the two) and costs you a shooting, which is baaaaad.

Razorwing. 4 S6 blasts on the entry? Blobsweeeeeep! Nids, Guard, even MEQ hate this guy. And Lances to replenish the AT loss at later turns. And provide basic Anti-Air.

Kabalite warriors. Here to provide poison. I gave them a Blaster so they cannot be ignored by Armour forces. They can fulfill multiple roles. Blocking, poisoning, AT, objective grabbing, etc.

Basic tactic is to put as much pressure on the enemy as possible either in threats or damage. Force him to make choice between bad and worse. Our vehicles got tougher in 7th. Theirs too though. We now need 10.125 lance shots to open a Rhino with Smoke (counting glances only). So I roughly need to 12 lances to shoot in the first turn to bust a transport to give my poison something to shoot at. Or if he has units out of transoprts, I will concentrate poison on them and my AT to his AT.

Possible problems - Drop Pod armies. I have little experience with them. Nids. Low poison and shot count, no Liquis, only Razorwing for blast damage. Lots of mobility and ability to put pressure where I need it. Can always put things in reserve and bait them around. Although a smart Nid player will just sit me out prolly.

So I would like to hear your thoughts on where I am wrong and what would you improve and why. I myself are lacking Haemis with Liquifiers and a bit more poison.

More detailed analysis against other armies would be too long.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 29 2014, 17:14

@aurynn wrote:
Ravager.... Reason is that 4+ Jink compared to 5+ Invul is actually useable only in 1-in-6 cases (the 1 pt difference between the two) and costs you a shooting, which is baaaaad.

I think this deserves a little extra attention. It may be "1-in-6 cases" as you put it, but those "cases" are EACH shot, so they can come in droves. If you have 4 glancing hits on your ravager, this is how your 5+ vs 4+ scenario will play out:

4+ = 70% chance of survival, with 32% chance of having multiple hull points left.
5+ = 40% chance of survival, with 10% chance of having multiple hull points left.

So, as you can see, when you're calculating multiple hits at a time, that 1-in-6 can end up making the vehicle almost twice as likely to survive, and three times as likely to have multiple HPs left if it does.

Math results, in case you'd like to check my numbers:
 


All that being said, I don't see flickerfields as useless. Against a low number of shots, or weapons that are unlikely to put many glances on your vehicle, and unlikely to blow it up, I might take the flickerfield save instead of jinking(such as S6 shuriken cannons). But I'd venture to say that most of the time people are going to fire something at your vehicle, it's probably going to be more dangerous than three S6 AP5 shots. And when vehicle survival is really on the line, you'd definitely rather have the better save. Losing shots to jink doesn't matter if your vehicle is destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 29 2014, 18:10

I have believed as you do for a very long time. But my game experience tells me otherwise. Your point of view is defensive. You care about multiple HPs left. I did so too, but a friend of mine who is a really accomplished player taught me (the hard way), that in the case of DE army and playstyle, defence is the last thing you should consider. We need to play extremely aggressive, we have to care about shooting and killing as much as possible as early as possible. Even if it costs us units. Until I learned this, I was not able to win against him.

As for your math, I dont think I get it. As in what it wants to say.

Between 5+ and 6+ I have 16,7% better chance of negating a hit, whether glance or pene. Right? This has different effect on different shooting, dependent on number of hits, S of the weapon and its AP.

BUT if I jink, the Ravager is as good as dead. It shoots snaps, so its dead. It may be sometimes, later in the game favourable to jink and use the Ravager as a roadblocker, but I dont see this happening before the majiority of his Armour is in ruins.

Therefore why should I trade a 16,7% better chance to survive for one more turn for making me effectively non-contributing for that turn even if it works, with still a great chance of leaving me at least wounded/damaged weapon, firing snapshots, not moving, etc... AND even if I succeed, I cant use the Ravager to put pressure on the enemy... no... I dont see the logic of that. FF is infinitely better in one important thing - if it works, Ravager works. If jink works, Ravager doesnt.

EDIT: One more important thing... If I were shooting a ravager, I would stop shooting it as soon as it Jinks for the first time. I dont need to. It is no longer a threat. On the other hand, if I dont jink, the Ravager will continue to draw fire away from my other vehicles, because it is still a threat.

Ofc there are situations where it might be prefferable to Jink, but the above is my general belief.
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 29 2014, 19:26

Your math is flawed. It has multiple hullpoints, and thus multiple shots to take it down. This means multiple chances for that 16.7% BETTER chance, which ultimately combine to create an ever-increasing gap in the percentage that is far greater than that 16.7%. If you don't understand that at this point, I really can't do anything further to assist you.

And just because it's snap firing doesn't mean it's "Dead". The fact that it lived through the previous assault means that it survived another round, and now your opponent has to dedicate MORE fire to killing it, thus sparing another unit from fire, or risk it being back at full firing strength on the following turn.
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 29 2014, 20:49

No he wont. He will just make it Jink again... Why on earth would he even try to destroy it? Its an impotent piece of plastic. :-)

IMHO Warhammer is not a game of "trying to kill everything" but a game of removing threats. Jinked Ravager is removed threat for 1 turn. If firing on it ONCE per turn is all it takes to make it snap, then its threat is removed. Not even Venoms are scared of 3 snap-shotting lances. Its idle points. Nothing more.
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 29 2014, 21:26

@aurynn wrote:
No he wont. He will just make it Jink again... Why on earth would he even try to destroy it? Its an impotent piece of plastic. :-)

IMHO Warhammer is not a game of "trying to kill everything" but a game of removing threats. Jinked Ravager is removed threat for 1 turn. If firing on it ONCE per turn is all it takes to make it snap, then its threat is removed. Not even Venoms are scared of 3 snap-shotting lances. Its idle points. Nothing more.

And that's why, in my original post, I said the FF isn't useless. You use it against things like S6 shots being fired at your ravager. You also use positioning to keep them from being able to continuously fire things that you'd want to jink against at you, but you DO jink if you get fired on by those big nasties. There are things that you'd definitely want to jink against. It's about threat assessment, and knowing WHEN it IS better to jink.

But I digress. If we were playing and you chose not to jink, I'd be ok with that. So I'll choose to be ok with you making a blanket decision here that I believe is sub-optimal. Good luck and good day.
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 29 2014, 22:44

On my Ravagers Ill jink on first turn if there is night fighting because the 3+ is too good to pass up. I also put Flickerfields on all my ravagers because there are going to be times where I do not want to jink (such as I get one turn to blow up a knight or something important I really want dead) and Ill just take the chance the Flickerfield absorbs it. For 10 points I think it should always be taken on Ravagers because as our only real ranged AT it is worth adding options to. Also 5+ in CC has saved my ravager a few times.

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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 29 2014, 22:58

True. I put FF even on Raiders. I need everything firing. I will need to do some more complex math on a sample list.

@BetrayTheWorld
Yes. I think we can agree to disagree. :-) It also may be that our respective metas are very different and our respective statements valid for each other's meta. Nothing wrong with that. I am glad that someone did try to point out a possible inefficiency in my list. I meant nothing wrong with what I said and I am sorry if it sounded like that. I was just trying to describe my experience and reasoning with the issue on hand. That does not make it an universal truth. And I assure you that I do jink sometimes, when it is tactically advantageous to me. So no blanketing. I just use the FF more than you and you Jink more than me. :-)

Anyway cheers mate and good hunting.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 04 2014, 00:19

The only thing i would suggest is splitting the wyches up into 2 5 man squads and tossing them in venoms. each venom will kill 1.33 space marines a turn when shooting and having 2 squads allows them to target two separate vehicles or 1 to soak up all the over-watch for the incubi and other wyches to get in. It's a good list.
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 04 2014, 08:12

@BB
True but its also 4 killpoints and this is all-comer. :-)

Anyway... the list is not good. :-D Tested yesterday, failed miserably at Relic mission and Hammer and Anvil deployment. I know, bad mission, bad deployment conditions, but the idea of TAC list is that it has to be able to deal with it... so... what I found bad (other than my sorry tactic)? :-) Funny thing... Two of my vehicles went down because another of my vehicles exploded nearby... You get that? He exploded my vehicle (rolls 5 and 6 on penechart), rolled 5 and 6 for explosion distance, rolled 6 and 6 for pene rolls... Oh and in that second explosion he hit all 8 of my Incubi, wounded 5 and I failed 4 saves followed by 4 failed FNPs...

Anyway...

- The number of incubi is total overkill. FF on their ravager too as I will be boosting anyway, so go Jinkhappy

- Blaster Archon is cheap, but I sorely needed to charge a 10-man tactical squad with him, but with VB it would be suicide. So swap for Agoni, removing Blaster, keeping HWG and moving him to another squad prolly.

- Warriors in Raiders - this game i needed them to provide screening for my other units. Their shooting was negligible. Thinking of removing Blaster and keeping them supercheap and Jinking. No Racks. They really are not worth it.

- Reavers... those guys are 2 big for effective Heat Lance use meaning if I spread them to avoid blasts and templates (which I need to often) the special weapons tend to be hidden too far back for even the 12'' move to get them anywhere meaningful. Thinking of getting back to caltrops thanks to the fact they can in fact bladevane FMCs, which I didnt know (thanks everyone on the thread regarding this issue).

- Wyches... they are such a firemagnet sometimes... for good and for ill... We usually play on 1 FOC so taking HWG Trueborn is not an option.

- Scourges... last game I made 3 shots on the Land Raider with HWB, hit 1 and rolled a 1... No wonder that Eldar are the strongest dex. Its in the rerolls!!! Their plans dont fail on bad rolls! Sigh... Really if I had more room in Elite Slots, I would drop them...

- Ravagers - FF only. No NS. NS is very situational and I find that in most games they are useful against 1 or two shots in the whole game. Keeping FF so I dont have to jink.

- Razorwing - He has such magnificent firepower... The alphastrike is BRUTAL. I can easily put 10-15 wounds on a Termie squad before saves and erase whole units of infantry, I can clip vehicles and have 2 lances for further use. If he had Vector Dancer and Strafing Run I would never leave home without him. :-)

That said, I will be back with a new instance of the list. And I will try something that noone takes these days... :-)
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 04 2014, 11:07

I have actually run a list very similar to this, and the problem I had was that I didn't have enough Venoms. I was running two, one full of Trueborn (who I've now dropped entirely from the list - if they don't earn their keep, they're out) and one full of wyches. Two Venoms, or in your case, one Venom, are just too easy to get rid of. Anyone who has played DE before knows how many shots they pump out, and if they haven't they soon do. Open-topped, armour ten skimmers with two hull points are obviously quite fragile. I appreciate that you want to avoid spam, but when you only have a choice of two transports for an army that practically has to be mechanised, you're going to end up with multiples of them. I played a 1750 point game yesterday, and for the first time I used four Venoms. Those extra two Venoms are one of the best 40K purchases I have made for some time. By hunting in a pack with them, you force your opponent to make difficult decisions - anything that goes over there to deal with them will get rid of one, but then has to face the return firepower of three. If they're firing their ordnance barrage weapons at Venoms, boo hoo, you lost 135 points worth of stuff, and your Incubi are unscathed.

Personally, I love The Relic. It's by far and away my favourite mission. Maybe it's just because it reminds me of Oddball in Halo. That's given me an idea for a variant mission where the relic increases or decreases in value throughout the game... But I digress. Whilst the relic is tricky for us to grab and hold early on like orks or marines can, we can really spoil the game for somebody in the last couple of turns. It becomes a game of cutting their supply line, essentially. You have to leave the relic carriers stranded, with nowhere to run, and we do that as an army really well by boosting into their deployment and taking out their backfield, or by concentrating fire on stuff in order of threat level, leaving the minimum amount of stuff able to draw line of sight. Reavers in particular excel at backfield mayhem, and I pretty much always start them in reserve unless I know nothing can get to them on the first turn. Then they come on, turbo over something to bladevane it and get themselves into position for shots on rear armour next turn. I actually quite like the idea of running maximum caltrops and maximum heat lances in the same unit, but it would just make them too expensive. I do, however, run a Venom Blade champion with them -that extra point of leadership, as well as wounding on a 2+, has saved them countless times. I try not to use them to bait charges though - most of the time they stand a better chance bladevaning or shooting their target as opposed to slapping it. Obviously it depends what that unit would otherwise destroy, but if your opponent is asaulting with Devastators it's already gone very wrong for one of you, either because so much of your stuff is already smouldering that he doesn't even need them to fire, or because he stands no chance of winning so might as well charge with a heavy weapons squad. That's my opinion though, I always try to get the charge off rather than be charged if thaty's the way things are going, simply because of the extra attacks. Hammer and Anvil deployment can be a pain sometimes, as it leaves us very little width in which to maneuver, but it's not all bad - our speed means we can be around the relic, ready and waiting, very quickly.

I don't think your Incubi are overkill, or rather, they are, but that's the way Incubi like it. I ran seven with my Archon yesterday, with a Haemonculus for the pain token, and they performed admirably well. Any less than that and they don't kill enough stuff for my liking, then have to withstand the retaliation. Better to blend everything into soup on the charge, not even giving them the chance to swing back Smile

The Razorwing definitely has a place I would say - here's hoping they move it to fast attack in the new codex - but I'm not sure the Scourges do. They're just so expensive. They look lovely, but they always underperform for me. I would agree about dropping them. Looking forward to seeing your ideas for another list!

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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 04 2014, 12:18

Well I can identify myself with relatively all you wrote, but... My most regular opponent is a very skilled player who comes always prepared, has excellent knowledge of the rules and dexes and always brings some dickery to the table just to test me and so I gain some valuable experience. :-) I sometimes feel like his personal project - if he can make a good player out of me. :-D Therefore lists that I am using to beat people with 10 times my experience easily are not working against him. :-)

Basically every small mistake I make is exploited drastically. For Example if I put a raider 1/4 of an inch too close to an unit he wants to flame, he just clips it to get another D6 hits on the troops inside from his Multimelta/HeavyFlamer speeder, targetting the raider ofc then finishing with multimelta shot into the raider.

These and tons of other variables that a good player needs to take into an account are still too much for me to follow. But I am getting better. :-)
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 04 2014, 12:43

It's a long way to learn to be an expert if you only have too easy opponents. study

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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 04 2014, 18:36

I don't like venom spam but when building a competitive list I use 4-6 venoms just because the points for the squad and the venom is under 170 points (4 incubi in a venom with both shields and both cannons is 163) as well as they are a threat to everything. Whether it's at long range or cc. Also the more squads you put out the more targets he has to choose between meaning more points will live. Warriors with splinter racks is good against FMC and drop pods guys that choose to shoot at a venom instead of them. 20 shots twin linked will do 18 hits (instead of 13) and 9 wounds (instead of 6) 3 dead space marines a turn instead of 2. So 1 turn of shooting at space marines you get your points back for the racks (as well as 6 hits on FMC instead of 3).
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 04 2014, 18:41

IF they get to shoot at all. :-D
Anyway, I know the math, but I will still take them only if I dont have anything else to spend the points for. :-)


Last edited by aurynn on Thu Sep 04 2014, 19:28; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 04 2014, 18:46

Oh okay :-D
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 05 2014, 14:02

Splinter racks are a really good upgrade for the points. I had a squad of warriors in a Raider become the bane of my opponent in one game because they'd shuffle 6" to get jink (back in 6th), then pour fire into the squad. Any that survived would then try and charge the Raider and die to overwatch. I got really lucky and had the blaster take out the Wolf Guard leading a squad too. They were absolutely brutal, and were it possible to go beyond three pain tokens, they would have had five by the end of the game Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 05 2014, 14:04

Well the change to Jink now makes them less ideal choice too. If I ned to jink, I loose the shooting.

If I dont want to Jink, I need FF, which is 10 pts more... Soooo. I am either not shooting or paying actually 20 points to use them. Without any guarantee that they WILL actually get to any meaningful shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 05 2014, 14:55

The thing with jinking is the shield gives you the same save as the old jink did if you moved 6". I always toss both shields on my vehicles just because it annoys my opponents when they get a pen in cc and I save it with the shield or when they try to shoot a melta but he's not within 6".
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 14 2014, 18:29

Well now. After a game where I had to finally admit that Blasterborn NEVER earn their points, because they are dead as soon as they stick their noses on the battlefield, I decided to Alter the strategy and the list accordingly:

HQ:
Archon, PwrLance, SF, PGL, HWG, Drugs (just because I didnt have better place to spend 10 pts.

ELITE:
6x Incubi, Raider - FF, NS

TROOPS:
5x Warriors, Blaster, Venom - NS
5x Warriors, Blaster, Venom - NS
9x Warriors, Blaster, Raider - FF, NS
9x Warriors, Blaster, Raider - FF, NS
10x Wyches, HWG, Hekatrix - HWG, PwrLance, Raider - FF,NS

FA:
6x Reavers, 2x HeatLance
5x Scourges, 2x HWB
5x Scourges, 2x HWB

HS:
Ravager, NS, FF
Ravager, NS, FF
RWF
----------------
TOTAL 1999

My strategy will be more agressive. I prolly wont leave anything in my deployment zone and zoom forward. Kabalites will serve as roadblockers. Wyches will go where they might cause the most harm - with Incubi towards the enemy backfield, assaulting ASAP.

Scourges into reserves to get a shot at the most important/toughest target.

Comments?
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PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 21:06

I don't think you have enough units at a 2000 point level, especially when reserving some. This is primarily because you've chosen very expensive methods to deal with threats and only taken a single detachment. I'd highly suggest using multiple detachments whenever possible, but barring that:

You have 120 points of defensive upgrades on your vehicles that could be used to just buy more vehicles, thus creating more offensive firepower and negating the need for so much defense through target saturation.

Blasterborn were only bad because you didn't have enough of them. Again, target saturation. If your opponent targets your blasterborn, that means he's NOT targeting something else, assuming you have a lot of units, but you don't. That's the problem.

I'd do the following:

Drop the blasters from the warrior squads(inefficient) - 60
Drop the Scourges w/ HWB (inefficient) - 260
Drop the NS from all the vehicles.(You're getting half in melee range anyhow) - 60
Drop the FF from the wyches raider (No disadvantage to jinking their boat). - 10
Downsize the 6x incubi into 3x incubi, and put them in a dual cannon venom instead of a raider - 71
Drop the combat drugs from your archon. - 10
Total: 471 points saved.

Add 2x 4-man blasterborn squads in venoms with dual splinter cannons. (346)
Add 5 Haywyches in a venom with dual splinter cannons. (125)
Total: 471 points spent.

So, with the changes I suggested, this is what you end up with:

Lost:
4 Haywire Blaster Shots
4 individual blaster shots awkwardly placed into anti-infantry warrior squads.
3 Incubi in melee(was overkill anyhow)
1 Dark Lance Shot

Gained:
36 Splinter Cannon shots
8 Blaster shots that are more efficient than seperate blaster shots.
5 Haywire Grenades
3 More overall hull points for the army
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aurynn
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1999pts All-Comer Pure DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19 2014, 08:27

Well they certainly seem to work for you, but they really dont work for me.

The problem is that after the blasterborn's first shot I will be 8 blasters and 350 pts short as any capable player will just remove them with a few not-so-lucky shots. Its 4 mid-short-range lances with no durability, that either go boom with the vehicle or expose themselves to infantry shots - ergo 4 lances that are easier to remove than Ravager's 3 lances. Those 8 shots will get me... 1 certainly open Rhino, 2 with some luck... Nah... still don't see them being worth the points.
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1999pts All-Comer Pure DE Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1999pts All-Comer Pure DE   1999pts All-Comer Pure DE I_icon_minitime

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