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ivaldir
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PostSubject: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11 2011, 09:14

What are eldar gods?
Are they the old ones who created the eldar as a weapon against the c'tan or are they pure myth.
It is also possible that they where born through the belief of the eldar, which would mean that they're some sort of chaos god.
An other possibility is that they are strong psychic beings that existed on thier own.

I don't know anymore, i've looked on a lot of sites and they always got another explenation.
So what do you think?
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11 2011, 14:07

We don't really know.
They may be allegorical figures for the War in Heaven, they may have been warp entities, or psychic constructs.

I myself buy into the "They were the Old Ones during the War in Heaven camp", with the Avatar and such being made by the Eldar's collective psychic power, unconsciously.

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Preacher
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15 2011, 23:54

I'd normally say that the Eldar Gods are Old Ones/Ctan (C'tan as it is stated that there was a lot of changing sides). But then we do have conflicting accounts of the war in heaven. Some state the war between the Old Ones and the Necortyr (Necons) and the Ctan. In others it is a war between the Eldar Gods (ala Khaine chaining Vaul to his anvil and killing Eldaneesh).

And of course then we then have the issue that the old ones supposedly left this galaxy after unleashing the Enslaver plauge. But then how would the gods still be around to be killed by Slaanesh?

Personally I don't think there's a single answer. After all, isn't that GW favourite answer?

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Nepenthe
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16 2011, 00:45

Well, Khaela Mensha Khaine isn't really allegorical, so I think some sort of existence is required... :/
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16 2011, 01:38

It could be that Avatar of Khaine is forged from a similar substance to the Ctan's Necrodermis, that is the living metal shell which encases their essence. So let's randomly muse for a moment and say that amoungst the items Vaul forged was a suit of armour for the wargod made of this "living metal" or something similar.

Now when Slaanesh "killed" Khaine shards of his armour were scattered, each still containing a piece of his essence. Hey presto, avatars!

Appologise for the random musing.

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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16 2011, 04:15

Pretty sensible musing. I like it.

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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16 2011, 06:48

As far as I know the Eldar gods aren't/weren't C'tan, as the tale of the War in Heaven tells of the Yngir (the Eldar word for C'tan), immortal demi-gods. The Eldar gods are/were not demi-gods, but gods, of some kind. I believe they should be called a kind of warp entity, just like the Chaos Gods, since Slaanesh was able to find and kill them.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17 2011, 00:45

They may have had links to the Old Ones, as the Eldar did have contact with them, but the Necron codex mentions the Old Ones helping the Eldar to create gods to help them in the war. As such, they therefore cannot be one and the same thing. That isn't to say the Eldar might not have created gods similar to some of the Old Ones, and "carried traits over", as it were.

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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 24 2011, 07:28

Isn't the Laughing God of the Necron and Eldar one and the same? Harlies and the Deceiver serving the same purpose?

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ivaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 24 2011, 08:53

Wel they are both said to have tricked the c'tan to eat eachother but then again there are a lot of teksts that indicate that they aren't the same diety. (but they are tricking/ decieving everyone so why not the codex XD)

It's good possible though, warhammer is based on real life stuff and the trickster in religions often walks the path of the gods AND their opponent. For example Loki the Norse trickster sided with the gods and the gaints depending on what would help him. Also during the war in heaven there was a lot of side switching. Loki was also know as the deciever and he had a lot of fun causing mischief so it is possible.

But for now it's an open ending.

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 24 2011, 19:24

Well, seeing as Cegorach retreated into the Webway, which is partial-Warp-space, and therefore inimical to the C'Tan, they're two seperate entities. They did imitate each other on several occasions during the War, but they're not the same entitity.

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ivaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 24 2011, 22:30

That is the point that I was trying to make, in mythology tricksters where able to do things they where thought unable to. I mean if GW wrote the they where the same would you be suprised? They are lying, tricking, fooling beings after all.

ow and about your earlier post. I din't found the part about the eldar gods, only a peice about the old ones creating the eldar as a weapon so could you give me the page number?

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 25 2011, 00:24

What I'm saying though is that Cegorach has done things the Deceiver couldn't. For example, he fled into the Webway during the Fall, like Khaine shattered into the Avatars, which is long, long before the Deceiver woke up, so they cannot be the same entity.

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ivaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 25 2011, 03:13

Point taken, but it was fun to speculate for a bit Razz

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 26 2011, 18:11

Meh, I'm just not a fan of the "the C'Tan did it!" explanation. It's been debated to death on other forums, much like the "was Sigmar a Primarch" theory. There's enough of a link with the "they've impersonated each other on numerous occasions", without making it "they're the same entity".

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 11 2011, 22:45

From what I've gathered, the Eldar gods were Warp entities for certain. I strongly disagree with the C'tan theories for two reasons, one being Slaanesh consuming many of the Eldar gods, Slaanesh and Khorne ripping Khaine in pieces, as well as Nurgle taking Isha away from Slaanesh for his own reasons. All this speaks directly against them being C'tan, the masters of materium, because how can you be devoured by a Warp god when you are not only an anathema to them, but also have no Warp presence whatsoever.

Second reason of my disagreement is very simple - C'tan were retconned to be behind everything, and as such, cannot entirely make sense.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 16 2011, 02:59

I think they're subconsiosly created chaos god thingies. Eldar believe in then. Galaxy believes in them. Hello God.

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shadow hunter
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 20 2011, 21:29

There also Ynnead - the god of the dead that is still slumbering. I think this also points to the Eldar gods being a warp entity.


I've always wondered what would happen if all the craftworlds got thier Avatars together on one battle front/planet etc. Would they merge like the T1000 trying to become again what it once was? Or are they now seperate entities a bit like a greater Deamon?
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 21 2011, 02:26

Quote :
I've always wondered what would happen if all the craftworlds got thier Avatars together on one battle front/planet etc. Would they merge like the T1000 trying to become again what it once was? Or are they now seperate entities a bit like a greater Deamon?

Interesting......He isnt dead so IMO its possible, but what you need to do to merge god?

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 21 2011, 02:28

rituals, sacrfices? Psychic powers.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 21 2011, 05:34

Oh, Hello! Very Happy

Im new here and so on.
Dont worry, i wont try to slave everyone... for now.

Edit: Wait, what? Im mere slave? Im gonna get you for this! Evil or Very Mad

Ehem, so back to topic!

Well Eldars are saying that only 2 of their gods are living: Laughter god and Khaine.
Oh right and the Nurgles test subject (always forgot that).

Well i did read that book (whic name i dont remember) what said that Eldar gods DIDNT die but got literally eaten by Slaanesh when it came to live (or became). And how those that did survive well... then its get intresting = Khaine was saved by Khorne (or was rather beaten than eaten), Tzreentch wanted to (or DOES she/he want?) preserve laughging god for something and good ol" papa Nurgle saved the healing princes.

Well and the point of this = Each off these god represents a part of Eldar psyche so they are part of them. Khaine represents bloodlust of the eldar, laughing god means the irony and storytelling (and of course humour!) of eldar.

So I thing that Eldar gods lived in "near" the Warp because only psychic energy only come present there so Slaanesh could easily eat them.

And theres one thing also = Slaanesh is some way a Eldar god because it came to existence by thoughts of Eldar so IT IS a Eldar god (of dark excess, pervert) and by that way Slaanesh is losing some power every time it eats a eldar soul because it loses also a the same pcyhic believe on it and that same time (if its true) a Eldar god of death is gaining power. Question

So in general: Eldar gods were demigods whic are somehow alive Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar gods   Eldar gods I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 01 2011, 10:25

I haven't been exposed to a great deal of the newer fluff, but I've always believed the Eldar gods were originally created simply from Eldar belief in them, as many other warp entities are. By that reasoning the Emperor, whatever he was originally, is now truly a god in the 40k universe. And more amusingly...so are Gork and Mork Smile

I cannot point to a specific piece of literature, but I thought there was background indicating the Laughing God and the Deceiver repeatedly impersonated each other for their own agendas, making it very difficult to actually figure out who is doing what and for what reason.
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