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 Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions

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lelith
Count Adhemar
Hunter245
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Hunter245
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PostSubject: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 15:58

Howdy Yall. I'm currently getting an itch to start a Dark Eldar Army. I'm currently testing out a paint scheme and am trying to figure out how I should assemble my raiders/venoms.

After reading the Tatica thread I have a couple of questions.


My second point about jink is the noble raider. I've always loved the idea of dark lance, but with Jinking being free (Flicker Fields are an option) it seems that you will be snapshoting the raider if it's even blinked at. This makes the disintegrator cannon even more tasty. Every 2 Jinks with a raider you are guaranteed a S5 AP 2 Shot. While this might not seem like much This shot can be fired at a TEQ and easily earn it's points back.

However not equipping my raiders with Dark lances really pushes my anti tank to the Ravager/  Suicide Wyche Squads.


Discuss, how you get the most out of your raiders!!

EDIT: Answered Question #1 DUH Point
Everyone suggests that the venom's be upgraded their splinter rifle to a splinter Cannon.
However Paying an extra 10 Points for a vehicle that already pumps out burst efficiently while taking away it's ability to snapshot. Now I understand that if you jinx you can rely on the vehicles occupants to make up for the missing firepower or spend the turn ignoring shooting and relocate the venom. The included Flicker-field some can argue that one doesn't need to jink. However your increasing the 2 hull-point survivability by 16%.


Last edited by Hunter245 on Fri Aug 15 2014, 16:19; edited 3 times in total
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 16:10

Hunter245 wrote:
However Paying an extra 10 Points for a vehicle that already pumps out burst efficiently while taking away it's ability to snapshot.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. Why would adding the 2nd cannon (which is pretty much the best 10 points you're likely to spend) remove your ability to snapshot?

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Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions YhBv3Wk
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Hunter245
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 16:13

Although it's minor The splinter rifle (2 Shots potential shots ) get's replaced with an extra splinter cannon. Catch, Splinter Cannon is not a blast THANKS. My other points remain though! I will happily equip my venom with 2 splinter cannons! Will edit my original post,
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 16:17

You can't really rely on a Raider for firepower. It's job is to transport and protect its occupants. If you can get a couple of shots off before it's destroyed then cool but don't expect much from its gun.


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Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions YhBv3Wk
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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 16:38

Count Adhemar wrote:
You can't really rely on a Raider for firepower. It's job is to transport and protect its occupants. If you can get a couple of shots off before it's destroyed then cool but don't expect much from its gun.


THIS.

Well Count has already said what I wanted to say, but I'm gonna add a minor comment. When I use a Raider, I don't expect their firepower - it's like a secondary option for me. Their primary job in my army is to bring Wyches/Grotesques/Wraithguards in front of the enemy's face in Turn 1. 4+ Jink cover save (3+ at night) is so great for their job in the 7th Ed.

I also recommend you a discussion by great warlords here:
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t9351-7th-edition-jink-rule-and-why-it-s-awesome

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Hunter245
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 16:47

Thank you all for the advice. The model of the Raider seems to embody death and destruction making me compare it to the likes of the Eldar Wave Serpent. I'll keep doing some R&D!
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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 16:51

Hunter245 wrote:
Thank you all for the advice. The model of the Raider seems to embody death and destruction making me compare it to the likes of the Eldar Wave Serpent. I'll keep doing some R&D!

Oh and don't forget Raider is an Assault Vehicle in contrast to Wave Serpent  pirat 

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thesaltedwound
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 18:12

All the above. If you're suiciding wyches, consider advanced aethersails. If you're going to hang back a bit and use them to deliver warriors or whatever to an objective, think about nightshields and/or waiting in reserve. Depends what you're fighting, of course.

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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 14 2014, 00:23

Here is my idea on the raider with Maelstrom in mind. If I am running a raider chances are there will be 10 warriors in it ( I am considering running 5 man wych squads and aether sails for point grabbing but I need to test play that). With those 10 warriors the key focus of their firepower is obviously Anti Infantry, with this in mind I would like to spec the transport to accomplish the same role. So I put dissies onto it, chances are also that it will be jinking a whole lot (1 shot versus 3 shots). I would rather take 3 pop shots at a unit that my warriors are firing on in the chance to take one or two out and give them a better chance at a Paint Token. Now this raider is doing one of two things: either it is running my warriors around focusing troops or it has dropped my warriors off onto an objective and is now on its way to tag another objective. With aether sails I really want to drop my warriors off (with a splinter cannon) and then go to the other side of the board. it is reasonable that on turn 2 or 3 I will have every point with a OS unit on it, that potential is scary. By turning my OS units into anti MC/infantry I have done a good job of eliminating the other OS units in opposing armies. My troops are synergous and all do the same thing and very well might I add. Remember games are won with Tactical objectives now. This then leaves my other units to pick up the slack. To answer your venom question that extra splinter cannon should automatically be added to the cost because you get a free flickerfield. Now you do not have to take ravagers and you can take Razorwing fighters, which I think, are the best HS slot option. I would fill the list out with scourges as anti tank and blasterborn. Since your army is so effectively spread out across all of the objectives you want supporting units that can be where you want when you want. DSing Scourges and flying in RZWFs is the slack you need. Then of course you can have your trueborns flying around in venoms mopping up.

To reiterate: I have gotten so many points by using raiders to capture tactical objectives that it is silly. I've never looked at my card and said crap that's on the other side of the board I guess I don't get this point.

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Hunter245
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 15 2014, 16:18

Your Advice has been immensely Helpful. Thank you all for your feedback. A General Question I have when building up to my first list to use in game is it better to aim for 750, 1000, 1250? Do DE shine at lower point levels or mid range or truly become a raiding force 1500+. The reason I ask is I know different armies excel/failabbadon at various point levels.

I am currently assembling/painting up a venom for use in Kill Team and want to know at what point level should I plan to expand to.

Side Note: Does anyone feel the need to have warriors instead of wyches operate the Venom if they are the dedicated occupants? I feel an intense need to get another box of Warriors for that sole purpose Smile
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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 16 2014, 20:36

From my experience warriors are best left to sit in raiders in 10 man squads with splinter cannon and racks. Wychs in venoms are nice because you can drop off the wychs into CC and then keep the Venom zooming around thusly getting 2 OS units from 1 slot. 5 warriors in venoms is just meh. Most tournies are in the 1500-1850 range so 1750 is a nice level to shoot for in just general. Ive been playing a lot of 1000 pt games and we do very well in that bracket. I am able to get 3 troops w/ transports 1 HS 1 elite and 1 FA. Heres a 1000pt list I have that is doing nicely.

1 Haemonculi with Animus Vitae (point filler)

Kabalite trueborn 4x blaster
Venom SC nightshield

x5 wychs Haywire G
Venom SC, nightshield

x5 wychs Haywire G
Venom SC, nightshield


x10 Warriors 1 SC
Raider DL NIghtshield racks Flicker

x5 scourges x2 HL 3 shards

RZWF Monoscyths Flickers Nightshield DL and SC

SC= splintercannon

997 points... The animus vitae is useless you can put a venom blade on him whatever, he is there to give your trueborn a PT. The raider wrecks things especially in half range, I can not stress to you how scary that unit is to people. Its got a great amount of AI and AT with 1 flyer. I like to fly it in find their big blob of Elite units and drop all 4 monoscyth missiles on it. Last night I hit 3 times in a row and generated 38 hits on my buddies Sternguard DP Assault unit. Just stupid. This list preforms really well I almost tabled two people last night. IMO we really just shine in general, but what we are able to bring at 1000 is pretty legit. My biggest piece of advice is to have units do one thing and not to spend a bunch of points on stuff other than your transports.

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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 11 2014, 16:20

I like the list.
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions   Jinking and Vehicle Loadouts+ General Questions I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 11 2014, 16:33

I would just like to add as a counter-view.

I use Raiders for their firepower.

In fact, I personally consider the only real difference between a Raider and a Venom to be whether I am trying to get more anti-infantry shooting or anti-mech shooting into a given list.

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