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 Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard

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Archon Rievect
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 09 2014, 04:49

Hello, me again... I do apologize for the questions but I need concrete info from Commoragh experts.

I keep getting conflicting answers regarding movement and shooting of our vehicles and up to what distance any embarked units may fire..

Example- fast open top skimmer... rules say can move up to 18" flat out...
--SO, can we fire our DL,DISI or other weapons only if moving 6",can we do it at 12"? 18" would be a general 'NO"??? Either I am stupid or the rules do not break it down good enough..

Same with warriors or whatever... we can have them blast away if vehicle moves up to 6", can we fire if moved 12"??

I confess this is the first army with open topped fast skimmers and I am trying to give my units as many opportunities to unleash DarkLight mayhem as possible.

Then there is assaulting out of them.... ???

Thank you and will try to not go off target like my last one.... matter of fact, mods feel free to erase this thread once i have the answers, I will post 'thanks!, done' or something..
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Thor665
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 09 2014, 05:57

Shooting with Fast vehicles is covered on page 88 of the core rulebook (or page 515 with the big one, though with Ravagers remember to refer to the Aerial Assault rules as well for the third gun) Those pages should cover your 6" and 12" questions.

The only way to fire when moving Flat Out (which is the only way to move 18") is with a special rule. We do not have any special rule allowing that.

Passenger shooting rules are covered on page 80 of the core rulebook (page 499 of the big un') under 'fire points'. Just be aware Open Topped allows all of our passengers to fire, but all the other rules apply.

As far as assaults I would point you to page 88 again (515) which, in addition to the rules about shooting from an open topped vehicle also has the relevant rules for assaulting out of them.

I think that covers everything you asked.
Hope it helps.

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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard K93hWhs
Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard L1RsnGX
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Archon Rievect
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 09 2014, 06:42

Alright I will go back and look the pages over so unless I am blind I guess I am finding the info lacking in what I am looking for... Thank you, will post any thoughts later...


Hmm, ok, I guess move 6" shoot all,move 12" shoot 2, ..... passengers- shoot as normal if moving 6", Only Snapshot if moved 12"(?-see this is where people say nooooo you cannot shoot if your vehicle moves 12")... have pdf of 7th ed bigbook, have to go look up Ariel assault ... too tired to look through it anymore...

So, again thank you, I did see the entries but with our stuff being fast AND skimmer, there still seems to be a little issue with what each vehicle type can do..then you 'combo them' and the 'reasonable interpretation comes into play for people..or maybe it is just me......
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Thor665
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 09 2014, 07:08

Skimmer has no effect on passenger firing ability.
Neither does Fast.
Open Topped does.

Skimmer has no effect on vehicle shooting capability.
Nor does Open Topped.
But Fast does.

There is no reasonable interpretation needed in this regard. GW has sloppy rule writing, but they pretty much covered their bases quite explicitly on these questions.

If people say you can't shoot after moving 12" then show them the rulebook entry that allows you to and ask them if they know anything that overrules it. They won't, and then the game can proceed.

If you can tell me what 'combo' effects are confusing you I can help. But I would advance the idea that you're letting yourself be fooled by the writing. There are actually not really any contradictory effects, and the *only* combo effect I can think of is fast+skimmer as how far they can move in a flat out movement - and there's a specific entry about that under skimmers (pg 516 of the big book, pg 89 of just the rulebook, you're on your own for however the pdf numbers them - though as a pdf it should still have page numbers)

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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard K93hWhs
Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard L1RsnGX
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Mr Believer
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 09 2014, 09:02

You might be confusing flat out moves with regular movement. You can move your vehicle as far as you like up to 12", then forgo your shooting in the shooting phase to move flat out up to 18" (it would normally be 6", bt fast vehicles can go up to 12", fast skimmers 18"). So a fast skimmer would allow you to move 6", fire all your weapons and allows the passengers to fire at full ballistic skill (counting as having moved, so heavy weapons snap shoot). Or it can move 12" and you can fire two weapons on the vehicle (due to it being fast) and the passengers can snap shoot. If you don't fire anything, you can move 18" flat out, in addition to any movement in the movement phase. It's easy to make that mistake, as a lot of people seem to combine all the moving into one phase. People seem to think it doesn't make a difference, but it can open up fire lanes and all sorts, so it's important to think about where everything is going to be at the end of the movement phase and where it will be at the end of the shooting phase. Also, you can only assault if your vehicle moved 6" or less in the movement phase. Your total movement in one turn without aethersails could be 30" if you don't shoot!

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Unorthodoxy
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 09 2014, 09:28

chart in the back tells you this.

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Mr Believer
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 09 2014, 11:00

You might find the reason you're getting conflicting answers is because not many armies have fast open topped skimmers with a transport capacity too. In fact, I think it's just us, or at least that have them to the extent that we do. It's an issue that won't come up that often for a lot of players you're seeking advice from.

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Archon Rievect
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 10 2014, 10:11

Thank you all for the help and input... I guess I get muddied up regarding some rules regarding movements and especially assaults over the version changes..... hell I remember when I ran an all Khorne berzerker army with Juggies as 'fast attack' and I could deep strike them(use a beacon... AND my rhinos could move 12" AND the 'Khorne Flakes' could assault..... ahh the good old days of simple rules....

'chart in the back tells you this.'- hmm did not see this, i missed it or my PDF is jacked... will ask friends for a copy....

And yes this is my first army with open fast skimmers and where all the weapons are basically assault, etc..... If I ran psykers I would really be messed up...
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Barrywise
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 10 2014, 14:43

Move 6" troops inside shoot normally. Move 12" troops snapshot. If turbo no shooting.

As said previously you turbo boost instead of shooting a.k.a. Move another 6" and don't shoot. If I remember correctly the reason we can fire all 3 weapons on a ravager at full BS after moving 12" is because of Aerial Assault

Then for assaulting, I might be totally wrong but I thought it was 6" movement from vehicle, 2" disembark, then a normal infantry movement without leaving the 6" range of the vehicle then the 2D6 movement

I'm also new and had this problem two weeks ago. I found it amusing to combine 12" movement and snap shooting and splinter racks on a Flying Monstrous Creature Wink

The one thing that I have yet to figure out is when the Aether Sails activate. During movement? After movement? After shooting? I is confuzzled
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Mr Believer
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 10 2014, 19:57

@Barrywise wrote:

The one thing that I have yet to figure out is when the Aether Sails activate. During movement? After movement? After shooting? I is confuzzled

Enhanced aethersails get used in the movement phase, as the wording in the codex implies:

From page 63, "A model with enhanced aethersails can move an additional 2D6", though passengers may not disembark that turn, and the vehicle and its passengers may not shoot in the following shooting phase" (my emphasis).

This means your vehicle can move 12" plus 2D6" in the movement phase, followed by and 18" flat out move in the shooting phase, for a possible total movement of 42" in a single turn. Tasty!

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Archon Rievect
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 10 2014, 20:07

DAYUUUUUUM! Thank you 'Believer, I never knew that, man I need to learn to combine all these things ...I need to do flowcharts... I may have to try this, will really throw my opponents on their heals, even the Tyranid guys.........bwahahhahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mr Believer
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 11 2014, 13:25

You're more than welcome Rievect, just don't do the same as me and get so carried away with how fast you can go that you just spend the whole game moving your stuff all the way across the table and making whooshing noises whilst your opponent scores objectives  Embarassed 

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Archon Rievect
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 12 2014, 15:52

Ha!, no, hopefully I wont do that BUT I hope to learn to have them haul ass when needed so either grab an objective ,box someone in or at least haul from cover to cover so they do not get blown to bits.... I love the fact that most of the weapons are assault but I hate that the longest range is only 36" when the marines and guard have stuff that goes 48,72,96... I need to learn to close distance effectively to get my shots off..

I have a razor wing fighter, give it the missile upgrades and flickerfield,etc....... damn thing get blown out of the sky every time on the first time it is hit, missiles blasts scatter stupidly, hit everything with the Dl..then roll 1's.... it is a 190 point clay pigeon  Sad Mad  I am about to set it on fire... going with 2 ravagers instead.
I just bought a tantalus and a reaper Embarassed  and I may try a couple games running them and 1 ravager or them and a Talos brought in through a web portal along with a squad to just mess with people,see how that goes.... would love to have Archon show up with incubi,pop the portal and have a talos and 20 man squad of warriors pop out.....should cause a fit.. Twisted Evil Shocked 
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 15 2014, 18:05

Just to piggyback onto this- I can't find any clarification anywhere, so this might just be wishful thinking - does fast have any impact on disembarkation of units? Can we still only move 6 if we want to toss everybody out?
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Thor665
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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 15 2014, 19:25

Fast has no effect on the ability of transported models to disembark.
The clarification would be in reading the fast and disembarkation sections and seeing no exceptions being listed.

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Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard   Clarification please- need a concrete answer on HOW far an open topped fast skimmer can move AND shoot,along with troops aboard I_icon_minitime

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