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 Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar

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Mngwa
Wych
Mngwa

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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 01 2014, 17:19

Phoenix Lords are toughness 4 and Eternal Warrior, so there shouldn't be a problem there ^^

Tarpitting can be a problem, but at least in 7th edition challenges can't be used to minimize damage against super-killy stuff since wounds spill over
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 01 2014, 17:57

Indeed they are EWs but many things can still smoke one rather easily, especially on its own. As I said PLs are there to SOLVE problems for the unit, like tarpitting or ID weaponry (grots).

Back on fuegans ability and fnp for a sec.. how do each of you handle other abilities that trigger "whenever one or more unsaved wound are caused"? I ask because the same timing issue exists. Consider the diresword and asurmens blade, the black mace, and many more. All of these trigger on an unsaved wound. We've always played these as triggering immediately upon an unsaved wound. However another solution might be apnap chooses the order. Interested in your thoughts people.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 02 2014, 06:46

Feel no pain means the unsaved wound does not happen though

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 02 2014, 10:20

You cannot FNP unless there is an unsaved wound ... so I think it does apply. First you are wounded. Then you fail the save. You have an unsaved wound. Then you try to FNP. If you read FNP in the main rulebook it states clearly

" When a model with this special rule suffers an UNSAVED WOUND, it can make a special roil ... "

So clearly the unsaved wound has triggered some effects. In Fuegan's case he gains the bonus and he gets to roll the FNP save (if allowed).

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 02 2014, 14:23

except the entry goes on to say you treat the wound as saved if you pass the FNP roll

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 02 2014, 16:26

The main thing to consider with FNP and effects like the diresword or the black mace, is that ALL of these trigger on an unsaved wound at the SAME TIME, with no rule to determine timing. Thinking on this I wonder if we haven't been doing it wrong all along by always giving priority to FNP.

So a model not feeling pain prevents entropic strike from stripping armour? What about burning blood of daemons or acid blood of nids?

What about concussive? So not feeling pain prevents the concussive force of a weapon?

I think we as players tend to lean on past editions when evaluating rules, myself included. Yet applying effects before FNP brings more special rules into play and definitely makes things more interesting. FNP is afterall not a save, not regen, but rather a model SUFFERING a wound and stoically fighting through the pain.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 03 2014, 02:20

@Grokfog wrote:
On this note, I wonder; could Karandras be used with Drazhar and a unit of Incubi for shenanigans?

1. Attach Karandras to Incubi and Drazhar
2. Infiltrate them, in their Raider
3. On turn two kill everything
4. Practice pretending to care about the fluff
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 03 2014, 09:31

@Creeping Darkness wrote:
@Grokfog wrote:
On this note, I wonder; could Karandras be used with Drazhar and a unit of Incubi for shenanigans?

1. Attach Karandras to Incubi and Drazhar
2. Infiltrate them, in their Raider
3. On turn two kill everything
4. Practice pretending to care about the fluff

Can we do what?
I mean, eldar allies can`t begin game in our transpor. It could work with infantry squad probably, but not with the raider

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 03 2014, 13:09

Of course you can start in a transport - at least with an IC anyway.

The infiltrate bit is the dodgy grey bit as RAW you have no way outside of shrike to join a unit prior to deployment

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 03 2014, 13:28

@Massaen wrote:
except the entry goes on to say you treat the wound as saved if you pass the FNP roll

But if the wound was saved you didn't suffer an unsaved wound and therefore FNP did not trigger which means you did suffer an unsaved wound and FNP is triggered but then you didn't suffer an unsaved wound and FNP didn't trigger etc, etc, etc

And then the universe implodes...

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 04 2014, 12:23


I'm thinking that Jain Zar will sub for my fighty archon, they essentially fufill the same roll, go best with the same units (grots) but come with a higher price tag and more rules.
And can't start in the same transport? (Or can they, if the raider is a dedicated transport for the grots)

I've read a bit of stuff about the whole "IC with infiltrate joining a squad without it" before deployment,
So I would've thought Karandaras wouldn't help the beastpack infiltrate.

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 04 2014, 12:44

Oh yeah,

And why Jain Zar and banshees in a raider? I understand that the raider is an assault vehicle, but doesn't sticking the Phoenix Lord with an craftworld unit on a DE transport miss the best part of allies? Imagine Jain Zar in a raider with incubi-I'd think it far superior(for 7 point difference per model) apart from being T3 :-(

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"Whereas the duty of the Imperial Commander is either to seize or defend territory, the Dark Eldar make war only to steal. If, as a by-product of this, the are able to indulge their vile passion for murder, torture and other decadent acts, then they will joyfully do so, but this is not their primary goal"
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Mngwa
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 04 2014, 12:53

@flakmonkey wrote:
Oh yeah,

And why Jain Zar and banshees in a raider? I understand that the raider is an assault vehicle, but doesn't sticking the Phoenix Lord with an craftworld unit on a DE transport miss the best part of allies? Imagine Jain Zar in a raider with incubi-I'd think it far superior(for 7 point difference per model) apart from  being T3 :-(
Incubi and Jain Zar are quite an overkill, I would imagine grots are a little better for meatshields.


Anyway, can't an IC start with another unit in a dedicated transport even if they are another faction now?

I know at least that you can't have banshees start in a raider but you can have them borrow the raider of another unit by having them disembark turn 1.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar   Phoenix Lords and the Dark Eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 04 2014, 16:44

Battle bros ICs are fine joining a unit in its DT.. its BB units that cant begin embarked in a DT.
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