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 First few games in 7th ed.

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goofydk
Hellion
goofydk

Posts : 49
Join date : 2013-05-31
Location : Copenhagen

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PostSubject: First few games in 7th ed.   First few games in 7th ed. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 09:35

So I have played my first few games in 7th ed and have serious problems, not just with winning the game but not getting completely wiped. Just returned after almost 9 months away from 40k and I did have problems winning before with DE. I know its a special army and its unforgiving if you make a mistake, but here are my first few impressions of my games.
I played against Eldar in all of the games it was 1000 points, the guy I was playing is also new to 40k.

I must say that our Ravagers still suck, I know many swear to them but I cant get them to work, they are broken for me! First game I had 2 of them and in the last game I tried 3 of them in a 1000 point army. In the last game they did 1 glance in 3 turns, one of the Ravagers was shaken and then stunned in the following turn, so he doesnt really count. Still only managed to do a single glance in 3 turns of shooting with cover saves and the new jink, my opponent saved all the other hits, he might have been lucky with a few rolls but it is always the way it is for my Ravagers, they do nothing! They do get a lot of attention from my opponent tho, because of the lance weapons.. But seriously considering dropping them all together.

Wyches with HWG are amazing, of course you have to get them into assault first..

Tried a the Talos and Chronos without any Ravagers in one game and did a lot better, still nearly got tabled.. The Talos can soak a lot of dam and is a good threat once he get up the board, I like this model! The chronos on the other hand was a bit disappointing, I had few targets to choose from with only 18 inch range and they were all in cover (we did have a lot of ruins on our board) and only managed to do a single wound, next time I will try to get closer to use the template weapon, ignore cover!

Wave Serpents! Dont get me startet on those, dang they are good! And with d6+1 S7 ignore cover shots they really hurt my Venoms and then my Reavers, not to mention 60 inch range! They are serious problem for me, he usually had 2 of them in his army. He played on a board with a lot of ruins and only a single Building in the middle to block line of sight. The Wave Serpents usually killed 1 transport each a turn, I tried with nightshield and keep everything back, but the 60 inch d6+1 ignore cover shots could reach almost everything. My Reavers started in reserve so he at least couldnt hurt them in the first turn.. And with my Ravagers doing nothing, the Wave Serpents had a field day.. His Fire Prism did less than my Ravagers, they did feel good tho Wink He rolled 1 on to hit or pen everytime.
I need more buildings to block line of sight next time...

Tried the Scourges as well, quite like them, expensive but with HW blaster or heat lance pose a good threat and can deep strike.

The Maelstrom of War is very interesting and very random, I was getting my ass handed to me but was still ahead on points, got tabled in 5th turn tho.. And in the first game I got like 2 points and my opponent hardly had to work for his 12 poins, they just came natually to him, secure obj 1, oh I am standing on it already.. All time.. Very random but fun!

My first few thoughts... I need more practice I know!

goofydk
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goofydk
Hellion
goofydk

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Join date : 2013-05-31
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PostSubject: Re: First few games in 7th ed.   First few games in 7th ed. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 10:37

Might as well comment on some of the other new things in the game, like the psychic phase.
It seems harder to get powers off now, they actually have a chance to fail. Before it was a leadership test I recall.. and it never seemed to fail! It was not uncommon for my friend to fail a power or two in the phychic phase. But on the other hand, it does seem rather pointless to try and counter a power, so I have to roll the same number of 6s that he rolled 4+ seems fair.. Wink

My vehicles did not explode as much, which was very nice! Just to make ignore cover weapons out there..
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DingK
Sybarite
DingK

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Join date : 2013-03-31

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PostSubject: Re: First few games in 7th ed.   First few games in 7th ed. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 10:42

A few thoughts...

What are you fielding, that is an immediate threat to your enemy, besides those Ravagers? If there is no target saturation - which DE SHOULD exploit to the max - it's easy for him to unload everything on those lance boats and glance them to death.

Apply pressure to a single flank of his army. Your units probably can't take one of his down by themselves, but combined fire and/or assault can help take down full units. In addition, this should help to move your units in such a way to gain cover from intervening models - be they his or yours.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: First few games in 7th ed.   First few games in 7th ed. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 10:54

Firstly, your introduction to 7e has been somewhat harsh as you're playing against arguably the strongest codex. Eldar are a tough match up for most armies these days!

I tend to agree with you on Ravagers. I really struggle to get any effective use out of them and tend to ditch them completely these days. When I compare a Ravager to a Wave Serpent I just get confused. How on earth can the points cost for these things be right when the Serpent is just as fast, more heavily armed, infinitely better armoured and has a large transport capacity? Oh and it can be spammed...The only thing I can suggest is taking Duke Sliscus and using his deep strike ability to drop your Ravagers in from reserve rather than exposing them to first turn fire. You may also be able to get some rear shots against his Serpents, which negates their shield.

Wyches, Taloi and Cronoi all have the same things going for and against them really. All excellent when they get into close range. All very difficult to get into close range! Might be worth trying to spam some Raiders. Hurtle them forward turn 1, going flat out and jinking against any incoming fire, relying on flickerfields to protect against serpent shield fire. Then disembark and assault turn 2. The Raiders can also provide a distraction and some cover for your advancing Pain Engines.

The Psychic Phase is generally weaker now than it was in 6e. Personally I dislike it but unless you're adding in some allies you don't have any psykers so your only real choice is what to throw your Dent dice at. I tend to just pick one power that I don't want to go off and throw every dice I have at it. Rarely works but there's not really many other options!

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goofydk
Hellion
goofydk

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Join date : 2013-05-31
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PostSubject: Re: First few games in 7th ed.   First few games in 7th ed. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 13:26

Typical.. His other army is Tau.. but prefer Eldar now, got a nice painted army and all.
Well if I can learn to beat Eldar, I should have a good chance against everyone else Wink
What about Ravagers with dizzies?

What Heavy Support choices do ppl use now? Pain engines? None?
I can try and DS Ravagers behind his Wave Serpents, didnt know the shield didnt work from behind. Did DS Scourges with heat lances and a Raider with warriors and splinter racks, of couse the Raider landed off the table but at least it just went into ongoing reserves, but it meant that the Scourges were behind enemy lines all alone.. My Venoms were destroyed and my other Raider I had left didnt feel like charging forward all alone..
DS is very random, they might not come in from reserves and then they might have a mishap.. Hate to much random stuff, of course can really turn the battle around. Would be cool with DSing pain engines Wink

Big problem is ignore cover from Wave Serpents, cant do much about it, only place BIG buildings all over the table!

One option for me is to add Eldar allies and get myself a Wave Serpent or two + a Warlock.. But I want to play Dark Eldar not sissy Eldar! (that kick my ass all the time)

goofydk
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dvs1
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PostSubject: Re: First few games in 7th ed.   First few games in 7th ed. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 18:09

While its quite a big investment, I find there is little a fully kitted out beast star can't help with. Makes a big foot print a helps herd the enemy to a more advantageous place. All that str 4 ans str 3 rending will take most things down. Even without CWE psychic support, it's still a great unit a have around all the time. I believe there is quite the informative thread just below this thread. Hope that helps
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merse24
Kabalite Warrior
merse24

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PostSubject: Re: First few games in 7th ed.   First few games in 7th ed. I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 18:32

I've had the opportunity to play against Eldar 3 times now and have won all three. Keep in mind that my opponent does not spam wave serpents, he only ever takes 2. All three games have been 1500 point games.

My typical strategy for Eldar consist mainly of targeting the wave serpents first. My typical set up is 9-10 wyches in a raider (sometimes with an HQ), then 5 wyches in a venom x2 (all with HWG). I will send these three squads of wyches up the board at the wave serpent that is closest to the rest of his army. Reasoning behind that is that they don't have to go far to get back into combat once they wreck the wave serpent and I want to MAKE DAMN SURE that at least one of them can get to the serpent. For the other serpent, I try to shoot it down with my lances. I usually run 1 Ravager, & 3 Raiders. So far I've been lucky enough to handle the other with those 4 models. If I don't destroy it, I usually force a jink or a pen to force him into snap shots the next turn. Just remember, you don't have to destroy it to make it less effective.

Everything else in his army is situational. If he takes a Wraithknight, then it is high on my priority, but is easily taken down with the loads of poison shots. If he takes a lot of bikes, then I tend to take them out as quick as I can as well to negate his speed. After that, it is usually just mop up.

To summarize my target priority against Eldar:

1: Wave Serpents
2: Wraithknight
3: Jetbikes
4: Mop Up any immediate threats and use speed to stay out of range

Just one thing of note, I ALWAYS take flickerfield on my transports. 5+ isn't much, but it has saved me more than once now. It seems to always play a role in the matches that I've played. The way I justify it is this: I take typically 8 vehicles, flickerfield on all of them, so that's 40 points to upgrade them all (comes standard on the venoms). So if I can make just one save, that could mean the difference of a vehicle being destroyed, which in my mind, completely pays for itself.
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PostSubject: Re: First few games in 7th ed.   First few games in 7th ed. I_icon_minitime

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