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 Grotesques- How would you play them?

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sunspear
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PostSubject: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 02:30

So if I wanted to include some grots in my army how should I use them? Equip them?
They don't seem to get much love in a lot fo the lists I have looked at and I was wondering if they just aren't that great?
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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 03:38

I use them in all my lists as a bodyguard for my archon. I usually run 4 of them where 1 has a liquifier. If I have the points I include a haemie as well for that bonus pain token!

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 03:49

From what I've read, Grots boosted by Urien to become super grots is popular, as is taking the sergeant (aberration?) with Scissor hands. also popular is taking them as bodyguards for a killy Succubus. The reason people don't take the liquifier is because "it's too killy" and creates a possibility that it will kill so many enemies that you won't make the charge. Also take them in a raider otherwise they're just sitting ugly ducklings

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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 04:16

@sunspear wrote:
So if I wanted to include some grots in my army how should I use them? Equip them?  
They don't seem to get much love in a lot fo the lists I have looked at and I was wondering if they just aren't that great?

I use Urien Rakarth in a unit of 7 Grotesques, with Scissorhands and Liquifier.

It's good times.

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PartridgeKing
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 10:40

I will integer all of the above. While Incubi kill things like a blender, Grotesques hit like big slabs of meat hitting you with big slabs of meat - which incidentally is a fairly close approximation of what they do.

Re the Liquifier being 'too killy' I can see the point, but personally I always take one, or more. I do however tend to take as many liquifiers as possible in whatever place I can, and I do tend to make charges from closer than needed so have yet to suffer the ignominity of flapping in the breeze a mere hair-breadth from the enemy's muzzles. Definitely why they need transport, I've yet to use them coming straight out of a Webway Portal, but I'd expect that their high toughness will allow them to handle the fire coming their way, and having a Liquifier gives you something to be doing at that point.

Not got around to using the Scissorhand myself more due to points availability than anything else, though I'm certain I saw a thread somewhere in here talking about the mathematics of Scissorhand vs Venom Blade and concluding that there was no need to take the more expensive option - I cannot remember the simulation / scenario however so it might not be relevant for Grotesques.

Urien and his enhanced Grotesques are wonderful, more expensive for certain, but from my experience at least, definitely worth the price.

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MyNameDidntFit
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 10:47

I run my Archon in a Raider with 4 Grotesques (Aberration w/ Venom Blade) and an Ancient Haemi with some templates and Mindphase Gauntlet. Probably not as optimised as it could be, but I'm yet to have the whole unit die and they usually much face and scare my opponents into making mistakes.

I don't take a Liquifier because the unit is already killy as heck and I don't want to make it even more likely that I kill the enemy in my turn.
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Vindicavi
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 11:37

Same as many of the other posters here, when I do use them I run them as 4 in a raider with my archon, and possibly a hammy if I have points to spare, I have been using liqiufiers but have found that it can be detrimental in some circumstances for charging and can end up feeling like a waste of points.

My usual load out is Abberration with flesh gauntlet, since I find the instant kills very useful particularly against things like nurgle spawn, and a liquifier gun (which I am thinking of removing).
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 11:41

Summa summarum: Everybody plays them as bodyguards.

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Kung Fu Hamster
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 17:14

My current plan:

1. Buy a Tantalus from FW
2. Load 7 Grots, 1 Haemey, and something killy in it
3. Throw it at something big and scary
4. Watch my opponent wet himself in fear

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Dethdispenser
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 19:25

@Kung Fu Hamster wrote:
My current plan:

1. Buy a Tantalus from FW
2. Load 7 Grots, 1 Haemey, and something killy in it
3. Throw it at something big and scary
4. Watch my opponent wet himself in fear

I actually did that at a recent Ohio event called Origins. Granted it was for 6th ed at the time. But man do they pack a punch. I ran 5 Grotesques, 1 Aberation, 2 Haemies (huskblade on one) and Lady Malys. That unit was shot at, chopped at, and feared. I won all my games (didn't take first place; I guess). That unit only died against Meganobs with Warboss.
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Kung Fu Hamster
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 21:25

That must've taken up half your army. Smile

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sunspear
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 27 2014, 01:27

Cool, thanks for the replies, they are very helpful
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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 27 2014, 21:00

I tend to have them in all my lists with auto 3+aberration/venom blade or flesh gauntlet if points allow. These guys chew through everything, tanks included but i find them lacking against 2+ units
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DingK
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 01 2014, 16:04

Got a chance this weekend to give these guys a try. They ended up chewing through 3 Obliterators (T2), a mob of cultists (T3 and 4) and the last man standing - kept in check by Urien - took down a Forgefiend in turns 6 and 7.

That's 4 guys including an Aberration with Scissorhand, Liquifier Gun and Urien's upgrade, all in a Raider.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 01 2014, 20:00

Urien
10 grots- champ/ scissorhands/ liquifier
Baron


Ran this once or twice. Grenades, stealth and hit and run made this unit soooo good. but was very expensive.

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Tahlemar
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 02 2014, 04:56

Yea look at DingK's post ive done the same and it works miracles Very Happy

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 06 2014, 11:30

In contrast to the opinions here, I'm considering using grots as an anti-vehicle unit.

Simple mathhammer. Three grots led by a haemy in a Raider with Enhanced Aethersails costs 220 pts. Their threat bubble is 30+2D6" in Turn 1 (Raider move, aethersail, and flat out), which allows the unit to charge in Turn 2 in most cases. Three furious charging grots make 12 attacks, 8 hits, 4 damages vs most vehicles whose rear armor is 10. As we all know, they are also very tough and not die easily.

And comparison. With similar points we can bring two FF Ravagers or two units of suicide Wyches instead (both are more expensive than grots in fact). The former can reduce 2 HPs per turn vs most vehicles whose front/side armor is 12 or higher. The latter can reduce 8.2 HPs per turn ONLY IF THEY REACH A VEHICLE WITHOUT DYING.

I cannot say the grots are the best AV unit in our army, but at least it looks as competitive as other options. Any thought?

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General Smooth
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 06 2014, 15:47

lelith - I am a gamer hoping to return shortly. I was painting up my army for the fag end of the 5th edition for that very task our anti tank is just not fit for purpose. Add in a liquifier gun on them and haemy for blobs or just killing marines. Multiple charges should be good if you have gotten a few tanks onto 1 hull point left etc. They are also a hell of a distraction unit and you can throw them about as they are so tough. Plonk em in peoples face and don't care if they shoot them - in fact put a shoot me sign on them. And if they can get a cover save too - well all the better.
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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 06 2014, 17:22

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Urien
10 grots- champ/ scissorhands/ liquifier
Baron


Ran this once or twice. Grenades, stealth and hit and run made this unit soooo good. but was very expensive.

I found 7 Grotesques to be enough

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 12 2014, 17:00

I ran mine pretty standard in the past, i.e. 4, aberration- vb, killy archon, raider. No liquifiers no frills. They did pretty decent.

Now I've completely changed my mindset. They NEED to be tooled up. Forget the chance of burning yourself out of combat or sweating the extra 15 pts for this or that because its worth it.

When I say tooled I'm talking 2-3 liquifiers, 2-3 flesh gauntlets, then add the nastier arcane items.. crucible/shattershard/vexator mask. These things are a gamble but they're also game changing.

This type of build has significant AI ranged presence and will step to units the former couldn't even dream of like wraithknights, TWC, ork biker mob + klaw boss, flesh hounds etc. not to mention they furious charge tanks very well.

My current build:

fuegan
haemonculus- fg, liquifier, crucible (or shattershard/vexator mask)
4 grots, aberration- fg, liquifier
raider- ns, tgl

Ive been extremely satisfied with the dual flesh gauntlets, I doubt I'll ever go back to VBs.

All that said obviously grots are not the high end of competitive but tool them up and you'll get much more mileage out of em than the bargain variety.
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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 04:03

Okay I've just bought four grots from oversea. Hope they will be great for my pure DE melee army  Laughing

EDIT. I have a question about the liquifier gun. Our codex says 'One grots may take LG~'; does it mean only one grot in a unit can take the weapon?

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 05:21

Yep 1 power unit regardless of size. You will need haemons if you want additional ones.
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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 13 2014, 22:26

I went with Court of Archon, Beastmasters AND Grotesques as hammers in my force. YAYA! Melee-tastic.

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 14 2014, 03:29

@Unorthodoxy wrote:
I went with Court of Archon, Beastmasters AND Grotesques as hammers in my force.  YAYA!  Melee-tastic.

Well in fact, that's exactly my current plan Wink
Beaststar with Baron & Vect and/or Grotstar with Karandras and Haemonculus

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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques- How would you play them?    Grotesques- How would you play them?  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 14 2014, 03:50

@Brom wrote:

My current build:

fuegan
haemonculus- fg, liquifier, crucible (or shattershard/vexator mask)
4 grots, aberration- fg, liquifier
raider- ns, tgl

Ive been extremely satisfied with the dual flesh gauntlets, I doubt I'll ever go back to VBs.


Aren't you worried about the LGs on non-fleet units....??

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