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 Karandras and Power from Pain

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Massaen
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Zanais
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Zanais
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PostSubject: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 10:21

1. Can Karandras join typical Baron + lots of Khymeras squad and Infiltrate them all?
2. Does Power from Pain work for Khymeras now, as rule of working only for models with PfP has been removed from our FAQ?
3. If answer to 2. is yes, then does Karandras get also benefits from pain tokens? FNP on Karandras seems nice.

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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 10:33

1. Not while an IC without Infiltrate rule is attached(Baron). They can, however Outflank
2. & 3. Some say yes, some say no. Me personally I'm on the fence, but play it as only models with pfp rule can make use of pain tokens

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 11:01

1 is a flat no. This is due to the way deployment takes place

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 11:08

Bah so my beaststar list just went dead.

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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 11:43

Not Infiltrating doesn't make them dead. They are sooo quick that you will likely be in assault by Turn 2 if your opponent went first and moved towards you.

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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 11:52

@1++ wrote:
Not Infiltrating doesn't make them dead. They are sooo quick that you will likely be in assault by Turn 2 if your opponent went first and moved towards you.

This. I've frequently got my Beaststar into combat turn 1 without Infiltrate which is impossible to do with Infiltrate as you now cannot assault first turn even if you go second.

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 12:06

But if not infiltrating Karandras seems to be not needed. He is 230 points, maybe Bahharoth is enough.

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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 21 2014, 10:33

what will Bahharoth add to the beastpack?
If I relly whant to add a eldar hq to the pack, I whoild go for a faarseer on jetbike.
He adds protection from withfire, and some power to boot. Like re-roll saves or invis.
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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 21 2014, 20:52

One farseer is not viable in 7th. And Bahharoth gives fearless.

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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 21 2014, 22:03

Infiltrating is pretty useless anyway as you can't charge on turn 1 if you infiltrate. If you get far enough up the field that it's further away than you'd get in one turn of moving and running, chances are you're in danger of getting shot to ribbons and unsupported.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 21 2014, 22:59

@Zanais wrote:
One farseer is not viable in 7th.

That's a rather sweeping generalisation. One Farseer can be quite sufficient but it does depend on the opposition. If you face a psyker-heavy army then yes, you're pretty knackered. But against a similar level of psychic presence then it works okay and against non-psyker armies (Tau, Necrons, ourselves) then it's almost as good as it was in 6e.


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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 22 2014, 02:29

@Zanais wrote:
One farseer is not viable in 7th. And Bahharoth gives fearless.

Farseer with the shard makes them fearless as well.

Also, with just 1 farseer you can reliably get a single power off against even psyker heavy forces thanks to your ghost helm and just throwing all bar 1 dice at the power

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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 22 2014, 20:31

In writing as if I go to tournament. In casual game sure against many armies one farseer is enough, I agree. But when I go to tournament I know there WILL be psyker armies and that one farseer will just be doing mostly nothing. When your enemy has 15+ WC, throwing even one power per turn will be very difficult.

Baharroth gives fearless same as Shard Farseer. Agree. But he also gives 2+ save, and he is better in fight than farseer on bike. I wrote him as option, Farseer can be good, Baharoth IMHO can be good too. Im going to run him in few games.

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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 23 2014, 09:10

Vect with his preferred enemy rule is very good choice for Beast herd now. He doesn't hit as har as Karandras but close.

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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 23 2014, 10:54

15 dice deny is still only 2-3 successes and if you throw 8 dice you will still get the power off...

you will need ALOT of dice to dispel 3-4 successes

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Karandras and Power from Pain   Karandras and Power from Pain I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 23 2014, 11:52

Where do you get 8 dice from?

Farseer has 3 if you get 5 on 1d6, then enemy has 20 now. I agree that with 8 dices its hard to dispell, but next turn you can get a 1 and with 4 charges fortune is hard to cast, much easier to dispell. usually you just need one turn without fortune to get shot hard. Do as you wish, I prefer to have something less random.

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