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Brom
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Vasara
doomseer11b
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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 19 2014, 04:55

This is an all-comers list. I feel our army is COMPLETELY different now. I am trying to make lists that for one; my opponents in my group havent seen before, and also that will jive better with the current edition. Jink is really a pain in my rear now. sure it makes us more resilient, however, snap shots is a mofo. Anyway, here it is:

1250 army (1250 on the dot)
HQ
Haemy- VB

ELITES
Grots- 4 un-upgraged with the haemy in a raider

TROOPS
4x5 man wych with HWG loaded in venoms

2x10 man kabalite warrior squads in raider with night shields and splinter racks

HEAVY
Razorwing- dissies, splinter cannon and monoscythe missiles.

The way the list works is pretty simple. The grots, and the wyches zoom up the field to destroy tanks or what have you. The kabalite and the razorwing are my AI. I feel I am putting alot of eggs in my venom baskets. So fragile, yet responsible for being the backbone of the list. It worries me, however at 1250 Im hoping 4 of the should do the trick. At worst, 2 of them will survive the first round of shooting allowing the other two, to take out the

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 19 2014, 07:43

Wyches in Venoms and kabalites in raiders goes wrong. If wyches need to get in cc to blow tanks they should take Raiders. Venoms on the otherhand like to stay back field. Now the whole of your army wants to get up close and personal but other than grots can't handle being there.

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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 19 2014, 08:14

Completely agree with Vasara here about Wyches in Raiders for aggressive forward movement. Because you don't have any Ravagers in the list your opponent is going to shoot everything he can at the Wyches on his first shooting phase, so you will need to plan this one to perfection. Aethersails I think are a massive boost, esp if I need to hit someone way back deep. Also Grislys I feel are a must now as any damage result causes Ld check on occupants, and u don't want to be caught with your main AT failing Ld checks and doing nothing for a turn.

Don't forget too that your Wyches transports will be scoring too, so any surviving Raiders/Venoms can switch into obejective capturing/long range shooting mode. Another benefit of having Aethers....

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bveazey
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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 19 2014, 12:43

I always felt like nightshields on raiders werent the best use of 10 points anyways. I would think that you'd want the warriors onboard shooting so they are going to be at most 24 inches away. Nightshields will reduce that to 18 which is the range that most armies are going to be shooting you from now anyways if not more. Flickerfields would atleast stop you from snapfiring that darklance.
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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 00:52

Quote :
1250 army (1250 on the dot)
HQ
Haemy- VB

ELITES
Grots- 4 un-upgraged with the haemy in a raider

TROOPS
4x5 man wych with HWG loaded in venoms

2x10 man kabalite warrior squads in raider with night shields and splinter racks

HEAVY
Razorwing- dissies, splinter cannon and monoscythe missiles.

I realize your trying new perspectives but I feel the razorwing is too many points off the board at this pts level. Coupled with the full grot squad and full warrior squads the army is skeletal and not really threatening until turn 2 at the earliest.

My suggestion is lose the flyer, drop a grot and bring in some ravagers to focus your anti tank and saturate targets.

Put an abberation- VB and pair of LGs in the grots. I dont usually like LGs in grots when toting an archon around but without his killyness they need something to up the threat level.

I agree with swapping the wyches transports around. Also consider some splinterborn with haywire in place of those warriors and or maybe a wyche squad or two. They're my new favorite unit. I dont always get to use the haywire but the option is fantastic when I really need haywire.
Compare:

5 wyches, hwg, venom- 125
vs
4 trueborn, hwg, 2 sc, venom 141

The wyches are one dimensional although effective in numbers, just not something you always want more than 2-3 of due to no ranged presence outside of their venom.
The TB otoh are versatile, able to sit at 36" and pour out firepower while scoring. Then, IF I need a full on rush to deal with heavy mechanized armies or just tough tanks/dreads then the TB can shift gears and add saturation. Probably not for everyone but Ive enjoyed having the new option on scoring shooters so maybe consider it.

Lastly I would now also consider switching out each raiders lance for a disi cannon. Seems counter intuitive in the age of mech but its the quality of the shooting that needs to be weighed as opposed to moving flat out. That and the rise of meq as a valid horde OS archetype along with a return of light armour spam.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 02:34

Personally, I'd go a completely different direction in a 1250 all-comers situation. With the new rules regarding detachments, you can take advantage of the fact that even though our vehicles are paper-thin, we can pump them out en masse, and they're still harder to kill than in last edition. As an example, you could easily field a list like this at 1250 points:

2 Combined Arms Detachments:

HQs:
2 Haemonculi w/ Liquifier gun

Troops:
4 3-man Wrack Squads
Transports:
4 Venoms w/dual splinter cannons

Heavy Support:
3 Ravagers w/Night Shields & Flickerfields
3 Ravagers w/Dissies, Night shields & Flickerfields

The simple list above provides a lot of mech firepower and comes in at exactly 1250 points. If you're not a fan of night shields, 60 points could easily swap out to give 2 wrack squads 2 extra men and a liquifier gun. Or you could swap them out to change a ravager to a voidraven bomber w/missile. Lots of options.

I know this sort of thing is far from what you were posting, but I'm of the opinion that we have an offensive-based army, and the most bang for your buck from an offensive perspective comes from our vehicles. Nothing else in the dex matches the maneuverability and firepower of our mech on a point for point basis.
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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 02:51

I appreciate all the feedback.  I had some pretty nasty lists in 6th but I feel everything has changed.  Not sky falling just need to adapt.  As for this list, I played a game today and before reading this felt te same as some of the comments posted here.  I had:

Haemy with grots in a raider

4 HWG wyches in venoms

9 man reaver squad with caltrops

And 2 ravagers with dissies.  

I played against necrons.  He had:

Storm lord

Immortals with storm lord

Two ghost arks with warrior squads

2 ahhnialation barges

And a walker spider thing that has melta and gives his army rerolls to hit at what it shoots at

And a 5 man tomb blades with some blast weapons that do S6 blah blah.  

Wyches worked out well.  Took out a ghost ark and the 2 barges.  He conceded by turn 4 when he had a a ghost ark left and the immortals.  I had pretty much everything left.  He took out my bikes and 3 of my grots.  The lightning did most of the damage to me.  I kind of liked the venoms becuz they're easy to hide.  They have done really well for me in this game and against IG.  I'll tool around with the advice here and see what I can come up with.

In response to the above, I agree but jink has cut our balls off. I'm even think of dropping the second splinter cannon on my venoms for extra points . Like I said I'll tooklaround thanks guys

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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 06:20

At 1250, thats a lot of pain!

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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 08:10

You mean my list, the bat rep, or his list? Lol I'm confused.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 11:04

How has jink done anything? We have the built in 5++ for venoms and 10pts gives it to any vehicle.... Making them no different than 6th. Jink where necessary but with the built in invuln I really think we have seen the least impact from jink

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PostSubject: Re: NEED SOME CRITIQUES   NEED SOME CRITIQUES I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 17:54

@doomseer11b wrote:
And a walker spider thing that has melta and gives his army rerolls to hit at what it shoots at

When a friend of mine plays his necrons, he always uses that thing. Deep striking in his back and shoot,
with all, I got, helped me a lot, but just with luck.

Hm, his barges are all, that have more than 24" weapons range. What can you make of that?

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