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 Webway portals and allies ...

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egorey
The Duck of Death
egorey

Posts : 767
Join date : 2013-02-25

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PostSubject: Webway portals and allies ...    Webway portals and allies ...  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 12:53

So clearly the new DE FaQ allows battle brothers to use a webway portal. But does this restrict allies of convencience from using it? Can i take daemon allies and spawn horrors through it? For that matter can even desperate or come the apocalypse use it? Now any unit in your army may have access to it but anything but battle brother allies are treated as 'enemy units'. What do you guys think?

to clarify ...

There is a section telling you that models from group A (AND their equipment) interact with models from group B as though they were enemies. This is the allies section.
There is another section that defines 'enemy' for you, and defines it as being models under your opponent's control.
So to me it would seem models from group A will interact with models from group B as if they were models under your opponent's control, even though you control both of them.

But we have to be careful not to create Schrodinger's DE - we never control allies of convenience - but we do. We control apocalypse and desperate allies too. So if if the webway just says units do we draw the conclusions that in 'specific' circumstances only are allies treated as enemy units and in this case it does not apply.

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Last edited by egorey on Thu Jun 12 2014, 13:08; edited 1 time in total
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Dragontree
Wych
Dragontree

Posts : 521
Join date : 2013-11-15
Location : Bristol

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PostSubject: Re: Webway portals and allies ...    Webway portals and allies ...  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 13:08

I think its a muddy RAW area that can certainly be argued for.

However RAI, fluff wise and based on only battle brothers using transports (and I view a webway portal as a form of long range transport facilitator not unlike a homing beacon for deepstrike or such) I would categorically say no.

I would not be pleased if an opponent tried to drop a webway portal then pull daemons through against me.

But as said, wording has made it muddy by strict rule lawyering.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7568
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: Webway portals and allies ...    Webway portals and allies ...  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 14:00

The rules for WWPs say "any of your units" without mention of being friendly or otherwise. A unit in your army is your unit. A unit in your opponents army is not your unit. I don't see the problem.

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Webway portals and allies ...  YhBv3Wk
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Dragontree
Wych
Dragontree

Posts : 521
Join date : 2013-11-15
Location : Bristol

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PostSubject: Re: Webway portals and allies ...    Webway portals and allies ...  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 14:30

Written at a time when allies weren't around...

And any other ally beyond battle brothers isn't allowed to benefit from reserve modifiers, re-rolls, powers, abilities, or special wargear rules.

I know codex trumps rule book but I think the lack of clarification in an FAQ here is an oversight because few really use WWP so there aren't any frequently asked questions on it.

Augur arrays attached to imperial vehicles say any unit I think without specifying friendly, so deepstriking CSM termies on to them? Maybe but not RAI

Meh agree before a game I guess

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@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7568
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: Webway portals and allies ...    Webway portals and allies ...  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 14:34

@Dragontree wrote:
Written at a time when allies weren't around...

And yet it was specifically addressed in the 6e FAQ* but not in the 7e one.






*Of course, in true GW fashion, the 6e FAQ actually allowed any primary detachment to use the WWP but not the DE themselves if they were allies!!

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Webway portals and allies ...  YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
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dude163
Slave
dude163

Posts : 13
Join date : 2014-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: Webway portals and allies ...    Webway portals and allies ...  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 16:50

So if I use a WWP in my DE/E list I could pop some units from reserve onto the map via it?

could be cool with wraithguard!
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honethedroll
Hellion
honethedroll

Posts : 39
Join date : 2013-11-18
Location : KC, MO

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PostSubject: Re: Webway portals and allies ...    Webway portals and allies ...  I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 07:26

RAI is a valid argument in many cases, but those cases are almost always ones of neglect or inaction on GW's part. In this particular case, the FAQ was cleaned up and many of the things they removed were clarified by updates of the language in the new rule book (such as charging from reserves), so we have to assume that if GW removed it from the FAQ, they no longer found it to be necessary.

As the rules are currently written, the WWP does little more than confer a somewhat modified Deep Strike + Homing Beacon (no risk of accident on arrival, movement allowed) to units held in reserve. In an environment where even CTA allies are allowed to score, it doesn't seem unlikely that they'd be permitted to stumble through a hole in the warp and out onto the battlefield, especially considering that by the beginning of their next movement phase they must be well away to avoid triggering One Eye Open.

Ultimately, there is no phrasing in the rulebook or our codex that this is not allowed and (in spite of the shakeups in the ally chart) the general atmosphere with regard to the use of allies appears to be more permissive, so I see no reason for us to operate under a self-limiting assumption.

Someone please bring Chaos Demons in through a WWP and proceed to chase your own army off the board, I would pay good money to see this.  Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Webway portals and allies ...    Webway portals and allies ...  I_icon_minitime

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