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 List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!

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Massaen
PartridgeKing
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BetrayTheWorld
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Gobsmakked
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Gobsmakked


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PostSubject: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 09:15

Denizens, lords and ladies,

Sharpen your blades, and your quills, we have a new competition to announce!

With the introduction of 7th edition and the latest FAQ's, interest in the Webway Portal has been rekindled.  And following the success of Egorey's first list-building competition, the two have been combined in this new test of skills.

The challenge:
- you must create a WWP list for 1850 points.

The basic requirements:
- your list must be battle-forged.
- your list may have no combined Arms detachments.
- your list may have no Lords of War.
- Eldar allies are encouraged, but feel free to use any.

Entries must be posted in the TDC Blog thread (click here to see).

Your post may include a detailed explanation of your list, you don't have to have one, but that could hurt your chances and so explanations are encouraged.  You can click here to see Egorey's example.

The deadline for posting is midnight, Pacific Standard Time (PST), on Sunday, July 6th.

Think carefully - once your entry list is posted, it cannot be edited.  If two lists are identical, the one posted first will count and the second will be disqualified.

Judging by one of our eminent archon mods will commence after the deadline has passed.  The winner will receive ..... *drum roll* ...... an Imperial Bastion!  Courtesy of the Duck of Death himself!

And, if a minimum number of entries is reached, an additional prize for second place will be unlocked.  So don't be shy and get your thinking caps on.  You have 4 weeks.

Thank you.

+++ List of contestants (ongoing): +++

1 - Zenotaph

2 - Ligolski

3 - BetrayTheWorld

4 - Bibitybopitybacon

5 - Randozart

6 - Unorthodoxy

7 - Dragontree

8 - Creeping Darkness

9 - Helvexis

10 - Vasara

11 - Cavash

12 - Shadowseer

13 - Partridge King

14 - Fredpower

15 - Spellcheck2001

+++End list+++


Last edited by Gobsmakked on Wed Oct 01 2014, 08:22; edited 10 times in total
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 13:22


This is actually the third and the LAST challenge to be run for the best prize (I think). As well it is a DE centric list - we are on TDC after all. So there should be no excuses that you are unfamiliar with WWB and DE list construction, lol.

I really appreciate the support the thread has attracted over the past year and this is my way of saying thank you to the mods ( who have given me the leeway to post often and create these challenges) and the readers of the the blog within a blog who have supported it so well with lists, batreps and tactical analysis (J, Brom, Bugs, Cheer, Mush, Ligs, Randy and so many others). Also thanks to Ligs who really is the co-author of the thread and is an invaluable listening board for all my new ideas and who contributes many of his own.

I am hoping that the challenge will garner at least six lists but i'll be happy with any that are posted and am hoping we can all have some fun with it. So this is my thank you guys.

The Duckmeister

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 15:09

edit: Sorry, my bad...

List is now, where it should be.

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Last edited by Zenotaph on Tue Jun 10 2014, 15:30; edited 2 times in total
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 15:24


Zentopath - lists are to be posted here ...
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t6960p580-a-tdc-blog-tactics-unit-analysis-batreps-observations

I'm sure a mod can move it. Nice list. But for future entrants please post on the right thread or we will have lists everywhere, lol.

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honethedroll
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 18:10

If combined arms detachment is disallowed, what is meant to be used? As far as I can tell there are 2 options for detachments in battleforged armies: combined arms and allied. O.o
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 18:16

no extra combined arms .. just the main and one ally allied.

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honethedroll
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 18:20

Oh, bummer. So much for 6 squads of min-sized rjb...
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 19:58

Nice idea though. But hey three min sized will still be good. And you can send shining spears through  Wink 

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helvexis
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 09:29

by the way. how are you ruling on webway portals and non battle brothers coming through them?

Egory and i were having this discussion and it should be considered at least for the purposes of this comp.

the way im reading the rules i would say it should be allowed. the rule states: "any of your units arriving from reserve"
the allies of convenience says: "Units from the same army that are Allies of Convenience treat each other as ‘enemy units’ that cannot be charged, shot, attacked in close combat, or targeted with psychic powers."

this says they are still your units but treated as enemy not your opponents. They are still your units
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 13:11

Bring the discussion here ...

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t9506-webway-portals-and-allies#101826

I feel for the purposes of this competition we will allow oyou to use the portal until a FaQ is issued. It is a very grey area as it stands.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 06:22

So, ALL allies can use the Webway Portal? Not just Dark Eldar?

Or are you restricting it to Battle Brothers?

There are many areas in 40k where a rules call falls into a 'grey area,' that will vary from club to club or region to region. If we feel like there's a big enough divide that we want to clarify how the judge(s) feel on the issue so we don't submit them an 'illegal' list, should we post that question here, or PM somebody? (If so, who?)
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 13:05

My challenge ... all allies can use the portal - if you want to take other than battle bros go for it but live with the restrictions for non BB allies.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 21:48

Are we allowed to have more than 1 allied detachment, while sticking to the rules within the main rulebook?

And does DE have to be your primary detachment, or does your army simply need to have a webway portal?
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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 22:06

Army only needs a webway portal . Any combined arms detachment can be main. You can have only one combined arms detachment and one allied detachment. No dual CAD or Tri CAD, lol. I know you Betray.

Please read

Guys - this challenge has overall had the most responses but the least varied lists. I'm not the judge but I'm sure there are some list builders out there that come with something other than repeating the WG theme over and over again. My example list was just that 'an example'. I know there are TDCers out there that come up with something that is surprising and effective.

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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 25 2014, 07:13

A list of contestants, linked to their WWP lists, is provided in the OP above. I will update it a further entries are added.
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Shadowseer
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 29 2014, 11:35

I’ll give this a go

1850 coven wwp

3 x Heami with wwp
3 x Heami with v blade and liquefier

3 x 4 wracks –acothyst w/ v blade in a venom with extra cannon
5 x warriors with blaster
Behind aeigis with quad gun

2 x 5 grotesques -  aberration w/v blade
1 x 4 grotesques – aberration w/ vblade

3 x talos with liquefier and heat lance

Most competitive –maybe not, but loads of fun.

Basic tactics – wrack squad 1 flat out to the other end of the board to set down wwp in turn 2 for any late comers

Wrack Squads 2 and 3 go as far as they can turn 1 deposit wwp’s and then shoot any infantry  that they can see.

Turn 2 arrives, hopefully with minimal casualties and loads of reserves. Bring out the grots and talos, proceed with hand rubbing and evil laugh.

Anything that turns up turn 3 onwards has 3 options for coming on.

AA is minimal - quad gun with warriors

AT limited to cc grots and heat lance talos

Loads of AI

I challenge anyone not to have fun with this list

Shadowseer, please re-post this list in the following thread - that is where the actual entries go. Thank you, Gob.
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t6960p660-a-tdc-blog-tactics-unit-analysis-batreps-observations#102776
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Shadowseer
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 01 2014, 20:38

Sorry Gob, will do
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PartridgeKing
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 06 2014, 00:57

My 'needlessly different' entry is in place.

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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 07 2014, 22:24

Entries are now closed, with a total of 15. Excellent, our esteemed judge will really have his work cut out for him.

Not sure when the decision will be made, stay tuned for more on that.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 13 2014, 10:47

Ok, I have spent a fair but of time and I have some feedback for you all... as well as some winners!

First though... feedback!

Zenotaph
With only 1 portal, this list feels a little risky. It also lacks any real first turn punch the dark elder are so well known for despite the DE focus of the list. It makes good use of the avatar coming out of the portal - he will be a real pain when he does arrive and as they are battle brothers it suffers no issues from proximity to allies. It packs a solid volume of AI fire but it seems to rely on 1-2 units for AT duties. While AA is present, it’s not the most effective or efficient solution. The list has no psyker defence at all. A solid list for friendly games but might struggle in a more competitive environment.

Ligolski
2 Portals! This gives great options across the board for control and manipulation of the deployment. For me – the list is far too light on ranged AT – I would be swapping every star cannon for a brightlance on the Wlords at a minimum. The autarch also seems to be a little mixed up though I assume he is equipped this way due to lack of points. I tend to agree with the thought process of the Wlords over the Wknights. Target saturation of high toughness models works very well in this type of list. I think the spiders fit very well with the DE style of play – a very good choice. AA is absent from the list outside of snap shots (which the spiders do well due to volume and high S shots) but that takes away from your AI duties. A very good list overall which with a few tweaks could do very well in a competitive environment.

Betraytheworld
I really like the thought that went into this list – especially the psychic powers. The synergies created are great and the plan is well thought out and solid. 2 portals means optimal deployment most of the time though I would worry about the 2 small units effectiveness late game as anything other than objective secured units. The 3 units of WGuard are very solid but I would have liked to see a unit with D-scythes as a counter attack force – perhaps at the expense of a single spirit seer. This is a list I will actually try on the table with a few personal tweaks to suit my tastes. It’s a very good WWP list!

Bibitybopitybacon
Back to a single portal with this list – far too risky for me. If you happen to loss this first turn before you get to deploy it you have units of short ranged Wguard walking on from the back of the board with no way of moving them up. This dramatically weakens the force as a whole. With that said, if you do manage to get the portal in a good spot, you will ruin things with those scythes! I question the chromos as it has nothing really it supports well and feel this would have been better as a Talos. I also would be dropping a spirit seer for gear on the autarch as at present he does nothing bar increase reserves – what does he do turn 3? The serpents are a solid inclusion and with objective secured (as they are troops) should provide a great scoring unit late game.

Randozart
At first I thought this list was a bit average and the writer even comments it’s not meant to be hard-core and yet the more I think about it the more I really like the thought process. It doesn’t deliver the trademark T1 alpha strike but it does duck and dive very well. It packs significant AA and AT options and the AA is covered as well. Should the portal fail it still faces the same issues that the other single WWP lists have but thanks to the inclusion of the WJB units it’s still able to cope with scoring. I do feel its gone to far in the aircraft department and I would ditch the voidraven for something else – probably a dual lance WLord – but overall I think its great! The only think I might do would be to try and get a crucible of malediction into the list (by ditching the exarch and gear from the spiders) to give some anti psyker defence.

Unorthodoxy
It’s always interesting what peoples local games do to influence their list building. I think by going DE primary a great opportunity was missed here. As an example – the warp spiders are more numerous, survivable and dangerous than the scourges and cost less – its an easy choice to swap them to more spiders. The talos vs Wlord is a similar situation. The main loss going this way is that the 4 troops choices of the DE need to be condensed to 2 and the elder need more. None of this is necessarily bad but it does impact the overall effectiveness of the list in more ways – at which point you might as well start again. I would probably rearm the autarch to go with the incubi (shard of anaris maybe) to really make them scary.

Dragontree
The first list with 3 portals! I would suggest making the 3 talos identical for those times you really need one of them and fail the reserve role – liquefier and heatlance ideally. I would ditch the reaper launcher for the laser lance on the autarch so that he hits in combat hard as well. I think its pretty solid overall though like a lot of the submitted lists – lacks the anti psyker role.

Creeping Darkness
He says different and not competitive, I say its bloody close to being competitive. Necrons is one I have been thinking about since the new allies chart was available and I think it works very well here. There are a couple of things that I question (Mandrakes??? Really???) but its nice to see some variety in the lists. I like the little trick with the blind grenades and if it works it will seriously mess with people. The cronos have a heap of targets to buff and plenty of scoring options. The necrons really add a huge buff to the army in the form of rapid firing or multi shot mid strength weapons. The fact they deploy means you mitigate the CtA ally issue. The solar pulse plays to the DE strengths and the scythe gives some AA to the list. I really like this overall and think with some tweaks it could very well be a viable way forward

Helvexis
I love the inclusion of the void shields – it makes the chances of viable deployment for a single portal very high. The large block of warriors is a nice addition and the volume of fire they will put down will be considerable. I would move the nightsheid from the venom to the ravage as the venom has to close to drop the portal. Adding the duke is an OK move as you max out his utility on the poison (with the warriors) but I worry that the lack of use for his other 2 abilities just makes him too expensive for the job. I would be inclined to drop the WK down to a Wlord and then add a second ravager with the points saved just for another unit on the table that has to be put down. A double lance Wlord plus the double ravage should give a nice volume of AT in the early game and the lord can still play the double flamer and charge card almost as durably as the knight.

Vasara
With a new dex here this list is actually not legal by the rules of the competition (no Lords of war) but with that said, I think a similarly tooled warboss fits the bill just the same way… plus LOW will be a thing we can’t stop going forward. The idea of suddenly deploying 100 boyz in the heart of the enemy is just fantastic! I would only worry that I did not have enough room to get them all on – combined with the CtA ally matrix meaning they cant come on until turn 3 when you have moved away from the portals. With the comms arry it gets around the autarch bonus issue the list needs to work properly as well. It’s a great idea and needs to put on the table and tested – like the necron suggestion this could be a great way forward.

Cavash
Using the portal to get the normally slow spawn into combat is a great idea – I think it might have worked better with a biker lord mind you to really hit hard. Getting the salvo weapons to optimal positions is a great idea as well. The main issue is that again, CtA ally means its T3 before anything can walk out of the portal. To mean this feels a little light on table presence – combined with no long range AT other than a couple of lascannons and I suspect it would struggle against parking lots or tau. It’s a good idea though and one that needs more investigation.

Shadowseer
No allies! Interesting. 3 portals this time and a bunch of grots and talos to be deployed! With a couple of tweak and using 2 detachments you could easily run this with 6 talos if you wanted which sounds like hilarious fun! I wonder if urien might be a good swap for the 3 haemies with no portals so that you can power up the grots – the 5 warriors with blaster can easily go to make room for this. This way, the extra pain tokens can go straight to the grots and when combined with the remaining haemies will give you 3 super solid units. This is a great fun list for sure.

Partridgeking
More Crons! I do think that the crons help shore up the DE lack of AA but in this case its been used for an AV14 wall to hide behind. And provide flexability to the list. I think the thought around making the list flexible enough to run without the portal is a great step as it frees you up for deployment and keeps the enemy guessing. I do wonder about the inclusion of the archon as he seems to bring little bar a moderately useful tank for the grots and have to ask would those points have been spent better elsewhere? I would be putting the lances back on the ravage as well – the grots eat infantry as do the necrons so I would rather the ranged AT myself.

Fredpower
Couple of issues re the points (the void raven is more than 145!) which makes this hard to judge properly. I like the basic premise that said thanks to a good board presence and only relying on the portal for the 2 talos. It plays very similar to most DE lists in this regard. Given the raven is too expensive, a stock razorwing could replace it in a pinch or a ravage with shields and field with change. This is a very solid and flexible list overall and pure dark kin which is great to see.

Spellcheck2001
WOW, Lelith hesperax! Of all the lists this one ticks the most boxes for a normal DE list. Good volume of skimmers, lots of guns, fast, flexible and looks good. The scourges should really have heat lances to make best use of the option to portal (which mitigates the DS issues you can have) and I wonder if 3 reavers is actually likely to achieve anything other than potentially give up an easy kill. By dropping the Incubi I could more than double the reavers which I am inclined to think will do far more for you in the late game. Swapping lelith for a succubus with venom blade is also an option to make things more efficient but when you have a model like lelith I understand the want to use it!

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Massaen
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 13 2014, 10:57

So - the final 3 are - in no particular order...

Betraytheworld

Randozart

Creeping Darkness


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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 13 2014, 11:06

This was a very tough decision to make with these 3 finalists...

Betraytheworld brings a great multi task force with a wealth of tricks in its bag

Randozart has a list so fast you will struggle to keep up

Creeping Darkness found the box, looked outside of it and then threw it away in favour of the packaging and some duct tape!


SO...

In third place, I will go with Randozart - its a terrific list and one I really want to try. It hits hard, very fast and melts away.

In second, I will go with Creeping Darkness. Its a great list and some excellent though process behind it with a great bag of tricks.

And in First place - Betraytheworld! The list is focused on the utility the WWP can provide and shows it off perfectly with a fantastic blend of firepower, psychic support and combat - a worthy first place in my mind!

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BetrayTheWorld
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List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! Empty
PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 02:28

Wow, thanks! I totally didn't expect to win this as I saw the number and quality of lists pouring in. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the participants, as many of you know theorycrafting lists is great fun for me. I appreciate all the effort and discussions that went into and derived from this competition. Thanks to the organizers and staff for judging as well. From your feedback regarding the lists, I can tell you put a lot of time and thought into reading through and analyzing each of the lists.

Thanks again!
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Unorthodoxy
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List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! Empty
PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 02:48

The contest was for a DARK ELDAR (DE) Webway portal list. The instructions SPECIFICALLY say DE amd specifically say Eldar ALLIES encouraged. I thought it obvious that it should be a Dark Eldar list. It being the Dark City and all, it would not have occurred to me to even think about putting Eldar as primary. So, clearly, I did not understand this contest. The example list used Eldar as Primary but that was an example, and not the rules.

Even had I understood that we weren't really doing a Dark eldar list after all, the Talos was less points, more attacks and the flamer decidedly more nasty against some high value targets. I don't think I'd have changed the Talos out. The toughness difference isn't a non-issue for all weapons, but it is for most weapons.

And of course more Warp Spiders wouldn't help me take out Land Raiders like Scourges can. In this list, Scourges and monsters were ideally suited to do so and then take a lot of pressure off the rest of the force while the enemy tries to deal with what are very tough hombres. I wouldn't have chosen more Warp Spiders either way. They were there to force choices and as advancing barricades that could move fast enough to get out of the way of things coming in behind them/

That aside, congratulations to BetraytheWorld. We've chatted on lists and theory a lot and I'm happy to see his list won! Now put that Bastion to good use my friend. It fits snuggly into a lot of lists.

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Massaen
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List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! Empty
PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 03:04

@Unorthodoxy, I hope you don't take my thoughts on your list personally. At the end of the day, any judging will be biased based on the judges thoughts and experiences.

I did like your list, in fact I liked the variety and ideas for all of them! It took me a week to go through each force and look at what they might do on the table - I even got out models for every list here (yes I am that much of a plastic crack addict I can do this) and put them on the table to see how it felt in the gaming space.

I stand by my decision for the winners as I felt these had the best lists or the most creative ideas for use of the WWP and with 7th ed here, allies are a thing to stay. Utilising them well led to Betraytheworld winning.

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List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! Empty
PostSubject: Re: List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced!   List-building competition - a Webway portal list for 1850 pts - Winners Announced! I_icon_minitime

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