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 Beaststar for 7th Edition

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 25 2014, 10:24

Yeah Vect is too expensive and slow. I wonder if Baron stay in new codex as there is no model for him,beaststar might just die then Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 25 2014, 10:36

I heard some guy here say, he would pay 240 points only to steal initiative on a 4+.  Wink 

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 25 2014, 10:59

Vect is pricy. At least with Baron. The 4+ steal is nice, but fearless and prefered enemy is what you pay for. Vect speed is not a problem since the beast help him to get in to combat. Compared to Farseer on a bike with shard he costs 55-85 points more and doesn't have last turn objective crabing threath. But you can quarantee that reroll 1:s is always on.

1500 is too small for Vect. I have used him aa few times in 1850 list. And when you make the real Romeo and Juliet pair whole with Eldrad you got very expencive unit allthough quite efficient. Same level as full Farsight bomb or Paldadinstar.

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Brom
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 25 2014, 15:13

Quote :
So, against psyker heavy armies, can we make Beaststar which doesnt need Farseers and powers?
Phoenix Lords give fearless, Baharroth is jump infantry so he can keep with beasts. He also has hit&run, so only benefit from Baron is PGL. Karandras has a big punch but 230 points is a lot.
Ive been using a non psyker pack for many games now, its my preferred build. I did try the haemie I mentioned a page or two back. Unfortunately I see so much high str shooting I felt it wasnt worth the investment compared to just more khymera so I'd like to reverse my earlier comment. ymmv though depending on who/what you face.

I also got a couple games in at 2k recently which is not my norm so I just added a seer with sanctic into my normal list. The discipline was excellent especially one game where I rolled both 3++ and hammerhand. Str 10 karandras and S8 charging baron are good. With HH the pack will destroy anything it touches. Cleansing flame was also the best [inadvertent] anti flyer ive ever used.

That said if you come across an invisible star your gonna regret not having psych defense or malys.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 25 2014, 22:57

Just got back from my game this week - Beaststar v Tyranids. Tyranids tabled turn 4 although it's fair to say I had some pretty amazing luck (Wraithknight fired 6 shots and instant death'd 3 Carnifexes and a Tervigon). Took no casualties other than in the beast pack itself. In fact, the Nids didn't fire a single shot or make a single attack against anything other than the Beasts the entire game!  Very Happy Very Happy 

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 10:30

What list you played against Count?
Cause competitive lists with 2 Mawlocks, 2 Flyrants, Crons etc usually can ignore beaststar for at least 2+ turns.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 10:51

He played 2 dakka flyrants, 3 dakkafexes, tervigon, 30 devilgants, 20 hormagants, venomthrope. He made a few mistakes and I had some decent luck but it was still a bit of a massacre.

Oh, and I didn't get either Fortune or Invisibility so it was a big test to see how well the Beaststar do without those powers. They came through with flying colours!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 26 2014, 11:41

Added in a section on Alternate Builds to the original post.

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glnngu
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 01 2014, 07:03

Just a question on the beaststar. If you take 1 HQ with 3 Haemies inside.. each with a pain token, if all 3 joins the beast unit, won't get get 3 pain tokens and fearless? I know haemies will probably slow down the beaststar but this method negates the need for allies. Did I missed anything?
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 01 2014, 08:27

glnngu wrote:
Just a question on the beaststar.  If you take 1 HQ with 3 Haemies inside.. each with a pain token, if all 3 joins the beast unit, won't get get 3 pain tokens and fearless?  I know haemies will probably slow down the beaststar but this method negates the need for allies.  Did I missed anything?

Correct, 3 pain tokens in the unit will make them Fearless. You could do it slightly cheaper if you use 2 Heamies and a unit of 3 Wracks and have say Baron take the Wracks pain token and bring it to the Beast unit. But, they Haemies do slow them down a little....depends on your model placement of your Beasts really.

A Farseer or Autarch on a Jetbike with the Shard of Anaris is easier to operate and they will travel at the same speed and give maximum benefit in close combat

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glnngu
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 04 2014, 04:33

I will be taking on TAU this coming weekend and also new to beaststar.  I got some questions:

1.  In deployment phase, should I deploy them right up to the line (nearest the enemy) and rush him during my turn?  This will put the beaststar squarely in his range if he gets first turn.

2.  I saw some batraps where they deployed the beaststar in a single file right at the edge of the board (outside of enemy firepower) and then rush forward?  Wouldn't this delay CC and I would think getting into CC is a big priority?

3.  Is there an optimal formation?  For example, 5 rows of 5 Khymeraes, followed by 1 row of flock, followed by 1 row beastmasters with Baron/Farseer in the middle? Or perhaps string them out in a huge single file and run them forward?

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 04 2014, 05:47

I always put 4 of my beastmasters in the front followed by a clawed fiend with lhymera flanking on the sides and flocks in the back. Baron and Farseer in the middle with a chimera closest for LOS.

I usually deploy the beasts on the front line to get into CC asap. The only time I don't is when I know my opponent will be coming at me with something (teleporting dreadknights, fast CC units).

With tau I might be tempted to favor one side with them and force him to deploy in an unfavorable corner or on the side of your Ravager, venoms, and boats. Also, most tau I play against are super mobile save for the riptide, so they will be stuck for the most part where they are. By putting them on the frontline also forces your opponent to deal with them asap as they will literally run through their army singlehandedly. Having them draw fire for at least one turn if not more is what you need the beasts to do and they generally do it very well.

Hope this helps.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 04 2014, 09:12

I usually deploy as far forward as possible, keeping the beastmaster, characters and flocks in cover if possible in case I go 2nd or get seized on. Khymerae go in a ring, 2 deep if possible, around the entire unit so that they are always the first thing to get shot at regardless of what direction the attack comes from. I try to put a beastmaster in base to base contact with both a khymerae and a flock where possible. That way, if the beastmaster is shot he can attempt to Look out, Sir into either a Khymerae or a flock as required.

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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 04 2014, 11:29

But do u realy need to Look out! them?
I mean, if ur squad contains 2-3 beastmasters and flocks, fiends, khymeraes, u could probably sacrafice 1-2 beastmasters, as squad will not lose their Ld bonus.

Or sacrafice all beastmasters IF besastar has a baron. Simple put them in front of the group.

It will need some chalengers trougth... So maybe keep one beastmaster in center of the squad.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 04 2014, 11:43

Devilogical wrote:
But do u realy need to Look out! them?

The idea is that you get to choose where to place wounds rather than automatically have them go to the nearest model. If the nearest model is a Beastmaster and he is equidistant to both a Khymerae and a Razorwing Flock then he can, if he passes his Lo,S! roll, redirect incoming fire depending on where it would do the least damage. If a shot is S6 or higher you do not want it hitting a Razorwing Flock as it will instant death them. Therefore you try to Lo,S! into a Khymerae or keep it on the Beastmaster. If it's S5 or lower though you would prefer to take the wound on a Razorwing as they can take 4 wounds without the unit suffering any loss of damage output.

It's not infallible, as you still need to pass the Look out, Sir! roll, and it does bunch your models up a bit which can be a drawback if the enemy has blast/template weapons, but if used correctly you can minimise the effects of incoming fire.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 04 2014, 18:43

I would always try to save a beastmaster in case the Baron dies or to soak up a challenge from a 1W character.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 12 2014, 16:30

Ok, so I used this tactics today vs 2500-pt Astra Militarum. I divided the beaststar as the unit itself seemed too strong to GEQs (i.e., it was the waste of points).

Beast Unit I: Baron, 3 Beastmasters, 10 Khymerae, 2 Flocks
Beast Unit II: Farseer (/w Shard & Jetbike), 2 Beastmasters, 5 Khymerae, 2 Flocks

The results were awesome! At the end of Turn 4 (when my friend surrendered), these beasts killed 10 Tempestus, 20 Guardsmen, 1 Heavy Weapon Team, 1 Sentinel, and 2 Commissars at the cost of 5 Khymerae and 1 Flock. It should be noted that every unit was one-turn killed!

I love this tactics, and shall use it for my next game.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 23:41

Congrats Lelith.

Did u get first turn and/or have LOSB terrain to hide behind? What did your/his list look like?

I ask because AM are one of the few armies that have enough medium to long range dakka to evaporate unit of BMs in 1 turn. Let alone at 2500pts.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 15 2014, 01:21

I always have put my beastmasters first as ablative wounds. The baron gives me the Ld that I need for the squad.

To be honest, it never occurred to me to keep at least one to respond to a challenge. Only once or twice however have I run into the issue of having to answer the challenge with the Baron.

I'll have to give that some thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 15 2014, 03:24

Fearless is definitely the most important thing for a good beast star. I havent played a competitive tournament game without vect is over 2 years.

In 6th my beaststar of choice was Vect, Karandras, Eldrad. With 7th edition I just feel that the psychic phase is too unreliable unless you devote something like eldrad and 5 spirit seers into your list... which is both expensive and not as fun as bad ass combat meanies.

So right now Im running double beast star with Vect and Karandras. I also brought baron back after a few years hiatus... because I had a few points left over. This is at 1850.

Vect is so worth his points at all times. Ive used him in 1000pt games. At no level is he not worth it. Best character in our codex hands down. Im literally dreading him either being nerfed or turned into a lord of war in our next book.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 15 2014, 03:59

ordosean wrote:
Fearless is definitely the most important thing for a good beast star.  I havent played a competitive tournament game without vect is over 2 years.

In 6th my beaststar of choice was Vect, Karandras, Eldrad.  With 7th edition I just feel that the psychic phase is too unreliable unless you devote something like eldrad and 5 spirit seers into your list... which is both expensive and not as fun as bad ass combat meanies.

So right now Im running double beast star with Vect and Karandras.  I also brought baron back after a few years hiatus... because I had a few points left over.  This is at 1850.

Vect is so worth his points at all times.  Ive used him in 1000pt games.  At no level is he not worth it.  Best character in our codex hands down.  Im literally dreading him either being nerfed or turned into a lord of war in our next book.

Don't you find it limiting on your beasts to only be able to move Vect's 6" plus run? That coupled with Vect not having move through cover could be a serious problem if you have a lot of terrain to cover.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 15 2014, 04:28

The beasts still move 12". Vect can only move 6" but the beast unit is so large that is hardly ever a problem. At worst it means you need 2 beast masters to chain back towards hime turn 1, and 2 more turn 2, but in practice its not even that extreme.

Take a quick glance at the first two photos here: http://vectdoes.blogspot.com/2014/01/battle-report-gaming-etc-tournament_28.html

you can notice vect near the ruin at the front of the pack in pic one, after they move he is in the middle, by the next turn he is in the back, but then you are charging anyway.

As for terrain, just avoid it with him, not hard to do if you think ahead.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 15 2014, 15:44

Painjunky wrote:
Congrats Lelith.

Did u get first turn and/or have LOSB terrain to hide behind? What did your/his list look like?

I ask because AM are one of the few armies that have enough medium to long range dakka to evaporate unit of BMs in 1 turn. Let alone at 2500pts.

I got the first turn, ran into the ruin providing 4+, and obtained Invisibility for Baron's beasts. His army then shot Farseer's beasts and killed some. The situation would have changed if my friend had focused all of his fire on the beast units. However, he decided to attack my Ravagers with his heavy weapons. In fact, it's good decision as they were my only way to crush his tanks.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 15 2014, 15:53


We discussed the beastpack before on the duck thread. Fearless is the key. So either you go Shard Seer or Vect. Hit and Run and shrouding is nice so the Baron is always a consideration. I would personally go Karandras as well in a dual beastpack list as you now have a heck of a lot of flexibility. This is key. And Vect is just so strong.

As for the Eldrad shadow council list - well it is a great list. But it does not need a beastpack to support it. Although it certainly works. As for not as much fun - well that is up to the player to decide - I personally love the shadow council.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 16 2014, 02:56

Youre right... by not as fun I meant specifically fun for me personally. Fun being a subjective quantity that is to each his or her own. I dont begrudge people who do have fun with any list, nor do I appreciate when others have in the past discounted my fun for certain lists.

I derive the most joy in the game from the assault phase, and have made many lists to maximize this phase of the game, and really enjoy some of the ultra powerful combat characters that exist in the dark eldar and eldar codexes.

But the shadow council list has a ton of powerful applications. In both beast and non beast lists.
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