THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Beaststar for 7th Edition

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
AuthorMessage
Painjunky
Wych
Painjunky

Posts : 871
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Sunshine Coast

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 14:11

An excellent review Adhemar! Thank you.

@Zenotaph wrote:
What bothers me a little, is, that you have to use some characters.
Isn't there a way to go without the baron  and the farseer?

If you really want to do it without the characters it is possible.

Firstly take about 3 or so skimmers with the upgrade that allows nearby units to reroll morale. I don't have my book with me. Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never failed a morale 8 reroll that I couldn't rally from and still cause my opponent a headache.

Secondly don't expect them to win you the game. Run them at the enemy screaming SHOOT ME!!!
The rest of your army is now free to cause havoc. if your BMs actually kill anything its a bonus!
Back to top Go down
Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 653
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 14:23

More, like I would use it. Mobile distraction with teeth.

_________________
When I'm good, I'm very, very good. But when I'm bad I'm better.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 14:37

If you cut out the characters and just rely on the beasts themselves it's still a pretty expensive unit but nowhere near as effective. Not to say that it won't work though!

Note - I've added a section on Clawed Fiends to the original post. I'll work through the other comments and edit as appropriate in due course.

_________________
Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Brom
Wych
avatar

Posts : 755
Join date : 2013-03-28

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 16:24

Beasts are probably the last deathstar that is still tournament viable (although other new stars might arise). No 'need' for psych powers, massive footprint, innate invuln saves, speed all contribute. A full pack really increases the survivability of other units and works as a delivery system for combat characters. Their presence makes a fragile MSU army like ours MUCH stronger I feel.
The versions I gravitate towards eschew psych for more hitting power. Sure the unit can be destroyed and often will be but at the expense of leaving everything else mostly untouched and not before they have impacted the board state. Having a 2+ eternal warrior at the forefront is key to the strategy though IMO, especially with the rise of barrage and the changes to shooting into ruins and how challenge wounds spill over now.

I agree though you cannot cut characters. The beasts are basically faster cybork ork boys. They need a heavy lifter or double psykers. I prefer the former, its less luck dependent and more threatening in combat at the expense of survivability. Plus 7th has brought meq back with a vengeance. Hordes of marines combat squading out of rhinos is a serious build now and one which combat characters shine against.
Of course you could always do both but the cost is no longer worthwhile. I think a haemie to start with FNP is nearly as good as psych anyway (considering costs and randomness of psykers that is) simply because its a given and pushes your opponent to dedicate S6+ to the pack which is exactly what I want leaving my skimmers untouched.
Back to top Go down
Korwey
Hellion
Korwey

Posts : 65
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : Wroclaw, Poland

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 21:12

Only beastmasters and Baron will benefit from the Haemonculus gift so why bother?
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 12 2014, 22:56

@Korwey wrote:
Only beastmasters and Baron will benefit from the Haemonculus gift so why bother?

Read the Power from Pain section of the original post.

_________________
Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Korwey
Hellion
Korwey

Posts : 65
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : Wroclaw, Poland

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 16:42

From our last FAQ:
Quote :
Q: When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain and
some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to every
model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from Pain special
rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.
Back to top Go down
Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 653
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 17:03

But 'fearless' should affect the hole unit.

_________________
When I'm good, I'm very, very good. But when I'm bad I'm better.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 18:36

@Korwey wrote:
From our last FAQ:
Quote :
Q: When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain and
some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to every
model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from Pain special
rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.

From our current FAQ:

Quote :
...erm....nothing really

_________________
Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Brom
Wych
avatar

Posts : 755
Join date : 2013-03-28

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 22:24

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Korwey wrote:
From our last FAQ:
Quote :
Q: When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain and
some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to every
model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from Pain special
rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.

From our current FAQ:

Quote :
...erm....nothing really
Exactly. The old faq is as relevant as the old rulebook. Now the only source on the subject is our codex language which states "each pain token confers a special rule to the entire unit".
Back to top Go down
Korwey
Hellion
Korwey

Posts : 65
Join date : 2013-05-09
Location : Wroclaw, Poland

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 13 2014, 23:47

You're right, I opened the wrong file (6ed instead of 7ed FAQ) I guess I'll have to take Haemy back to my list then:)
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 14 2014, 08:17

As I mentioned in the article, don't expect it to last but RAW that is 100% correct as it stands now.

_________________
Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Ikaraii
Slave
Ikaraii

Posts : 11
Join date : 2014-06-18
Location : Realm of Shadows

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 02:24

Thank you for finally giving me an understanding of beaststar, I'll be converting my beastmasters soon so perfect timing.

_________________
Kabal of the Wraithborn, Cult of Shadows Unbound

Vae Victus
Back to top Go down
Zanais
Kabalite Warrior
Zanais

Posts : 116
Join date : 2012-04-09

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 12:10

So, against psyker heavy armies, can we make Beaststar which doesnt need Farseers and powers?
Phoenix Lords give fearless, Baharroth is jump infantry so he can keep with beasts. He also has hit&run, so only benefit from Baron is PGL. Karandras has a big punch but 230 points is a lot.

_________________
Sorry for my English Cool
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 20 2014, 15:31

Personally I'm not keen on Phoenix Lords. They're all way too expensive and anyone other than Baharroth slows the unit down. Plus none of them can duplicate the Baron's PGL or the Farseer's ability to get rerollable misses and/or saves.

I've been very busy this week but I'll try to get round to updating the original article next week.

_________________
Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Sky Serpent
Adrenalight Junkie
Sky Serpent

Posts : 2433
Join date : 2011-02-26
Location : Dais Of Administration

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 23 2014, 13:19

I think it may be worth adding that most players in the UK competitive scene in the last year have been running only Khymerae, usually 20-25, omitting Flocks entirely. This is due to area denial.

You could say this build is more successful with an Eldar primary and some are adding Eldrad to the mix too.

_________________
Sky Serpent - Drukhari 40k
My Facebook blog, follow for battle reports, tactics, painting and conversions

Administrator of The Dark City - Please message me any suggestions, improvements or problems
Back to top Go down
https://www.thedarkcity.net
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 23 2014, 14:18

I'll be adding a section on alternative builds/ special characters etc plus trying to incorporate some of the other comments that have been left. Probably finish just in time to have a new codex completely invalidate the whole build!!

_________________
Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
In Exile
avatar

Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 24 2014, 01:18

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I'll be adding a section on alternative builds/ special characters etc plus trying to incorporate some of the other comments that have been left. Probably finish just in time to have a new codex completely invalidate the whole build!!

This is actually something that I've been struggling with. There are tons of models I'd like to buy/paint for lists that I've made, but I'm hesitant to spend all that money and time, only to have everything switched around on me at the release of the new codex.

I was considering doing a big beaststar(25 Kymarae) with the baron, 1 farseer and 5 spiritseers, having the farseer go for fortune/invis, and having the spiritseers go for hammerhand/invis. All those kymarae attacking at S6 would be brutal. The extra kymarae, along with the beastmasters will allow the unit to stretch out so that the front line isn't slowed down much by the footslogging psykers. Just initial thoughts. Haven't really hammered out details.
Back to top Go down
1++
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1036
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Sydney

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 24 2014, 03:47

Has anyone had any thoughts on adding Lady Malys to the Beaststar unit. Can't be targeted by Psychic powers and can redeploy d3 units.

_________________
"I'm alive from this pain!"
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 24 2014, 09:02

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I was considering doing a big beaststar(25 Kymarae) with the baron, 1 farseer and 5 spiritseers, having the farseer go for fortune/invis, and having the spiritseers go for hammerhand/invis.

Initial thoughts are that the unit now gets horrendously expensive plus the Spiritseers can't have Jetbikes so they would slow the unit down. I agree it would potentially be very powerful though.

_________________
Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 24 2014, 10:18

@1++ wrote:
Has anyone had any thoughts on adding Lady Malys to the Beaststar unit. Can't be targeted by Psychic powers and can redeploy d3 units.

I have thought about it but Malys also blocks Fortune, Invisibility and other blessings.

_________________
New Dark Eldar in Tournaments: Wins: 17 Draws: 2 Losses: 8
ETC 2013 DE/Eldar player (4th)
ETC 2014 Coach (16th)
ETC 2015 Captain, Eldar/DE (10th)
Painting blog
Back to top Go down
Amornar
Kabalite Warrior
Amornar

Posts : 165
Join date : 2014-06-20
Location : Northern New York

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 24 2014, 16:46

Anyone have any thoughts on running a beaststar with no craft world support? With new psycic phase I'm skeptical about our ability to get powers off with just an allied seer. Perhaps running a dark eldar only unit of baron, 15ish kymerae, few flocks and some beast masters. Maybe throw in a haemonulous for turn one for a pain token till they FAQ it and pop him back into a raider, could even combo with a crucible for anti psycic support.

-random 2 cents
Back to top Go down
Skulnbonz
Hekatrix
Skulnbonz

Posts : 1039
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 24 2014, 17:22

Fearless is mandatory to make the beaststar work. Ld9 from the baron is laughable. They could just tank shock us off the table, or with all the serpent shields running around, make us take 5-7 pinning tests a turn. chances are we will get pinned.

_________________
Never fistfight with ugly people. They have nothing to lose.
Back to top Go down
http://www.fantasybattles.com
Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 25 2014, 08:12

@Amornar wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on running a beaststar with no craft world support? With new psycic phase I'm skeptical about our ability to get powers off with just an allied seer. Perhaps running a dark eldar only unit of baron, 15ish kymerae, few flocks and some beast masters. Maybe throw in a haemonulous for turn one for a pain token till they FAQ it and pop him back into a raider, could even combo with a crucible for anti psycic support.

-random 2 cents

Like skulnbonz mentioned fearless is a must for big beastpacks. I have mentioned before and will mention this again again.

Vect


He brings everything beasts need with Baron. Preferred enemy is almost as good as precience. That 3+ slicer is a good addition to beasts too.

_________________
New Dark Eldar in Tournaments: Wins: 17 Draws: 2 Losses: 8
ETC 2013 DE/Eldar player (4th)
ETC 2014 Coach (16th)
ETC 2015 Captain, Eldar/DE (10th)
Painting blog
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 25 2014, 09:17

@Vasara wrote:
@Amornar wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on running a beaststar with no craft world support? With new psycic phase I'm skeptical about our ability to get powers off with just an allied seer. Perhaps running a dark eldar only unit of baron, 15ish kymerae, few flocks and some beast masters. Maybe throw in a haemonulous for turn one for a pain token till they FAQ it and pop him back into a raider, could even combo with a crucible for anti psycic support.

-random 2 cents

Like skulnbonz mentioned fearless is a must for big beastpacks. I have mentioned before and will mention this again again.

Vect


He brings everything beasts need with Baron. Preferred enemy is almost as good as precience. That 3+ slicer is a good addition to beasts too.

My only issue with Vect is his ridiculous point cost. I usually play 1500 points and I simply can't fit him in.

_________________
Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Beaststar for 7th Edition
Back to top 
Page 2 of 5Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: