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 Beaststar for 7th Edition

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Vasara
Incognito assault marine
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 08:45

Archon?

Anyhow Baron grants them both, grenades and H&R

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 09:12

@Vasara wrote:
Archon?

Anyhow Baron grants them both, grenades and H&R

I know but as we're almost certainly losing the Baron shortly I'm searching for alternatives.

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 09:36

I actually went back and played beaststar last turnement.

Baron
Eldrad
5x Spiritseers
4x Beastmasters and 20xkhymeras

Also had 7 Warlocks and a Wraithknight.

Kicked ass, and it was fun. Got invisibilit every match. Shard of Anaris and Spiritstone on diffrant Seers, got invis on Spiritstone of anta'halan seer 3 matches! WIN!

Anyway, by far the nastyest Beast star I have used. and Warlocks didnt do much, but when I played serpent spam in the last game it really did the job as he streatched out all over teh table, and I needed to assault on all fronts.

Anyway waiting to see what happens in the next edition. Now going to turnaments where LoW and Escalation is allowed, so I am bringing my FMC Tzeentch list insteed of Eldar/DE lists. So next turnament Eldar/DE is an option are on the new year, so good time to figure the new build

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 12:47

Do you mean the warlocks joined as well?

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 12:49

@Massaen wrote:
Do you mean the warlocks joined as well?

No, they just made deathstar number 2 Wink Somethimes I had the Baron with them, sometimes baron was with beaststar.

I got 3 invisibility in two of the matches aswell, so Invisibility on WK, Jetseers and Beasts Smile

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 12:55

@Darklight wrote:
@Massaen wrote:
Do you mean the warlocks joined as well?

No, they just made deathstar number 2 Wink Somethimes I had the Baron with them, sometimes baron was with beaststar.

I got 3 invisibility in two of the matches aswell, so Invisibility on WK, Jetseers and Beasts Smile

I assume you had your Spiritseers as a separate unit rather than joined to the beaststar?

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 13:17

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Darklight wrote:
@Massaen wrote:
Do you mean the warlocks joined as well?

No, they just made deathstar number 2 Wink Somethimes I had the Baron with them, sometimes baron was with beaststar.

I got 3 invisibility in two of the matches aswell, so Invisibility on WK, Jetseers and Beasts Smile

I assume you had your Spiritseers as a separate unit rather than joined to the beaststar?

Nope, joining the beaststar, if not they'd just target them and shoot them dead.

Slingshot them around the table, no problem whatsoever. Also with Eldrad in there

Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 20140914_135321

Turn 1 in my last match against the serpent spam. Moving upfield. Moved in iwth teh Locks in center in the shootingphase.

EDIT: One spiritseer is missing as he died to peril in turn 1 and I lost firstblood.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 14:30

I was just wondering how you were getting Invisibility on 3 different units when all the casters are in the same unit and can't cast the same spell more than once per turn?

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 16:30

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I was just wondering how you were getting Invisibility on 3 different units when all the casters are in the same unit and can't cast the same spell more than once per turn?

Well, some turnaments rule it as you say, and some rule it the other way. In this turnement they ruled it that you can cast several of the same as long as you had the spell.

In other words I also cast 5 psychic shriek one turn Wink

EDIT:
Their ruling ". A psyker unit is every unit or model that has a mastery level. A unit or model like this
is always counted seperately for the purpose of manifesting psychic powers and all rules involved. As an example: a unit of different psykers like Eldar warlocks can proceed to cast embolden twice but the same warlock cannot attempt to manifest the same spell more than once."

I think its the same Ruling as the ETC FAQ. If I am not misstaken its only BAO rulings that are the other way around?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 16:41

What a bizarre ruling! Goes completely against what it says in the rulebook.

Oh well, fair enough. If that's what they've ruled then you may as well take advantage of it.

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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 16:51

Count, how can u get H&R by beasts, without Satonyx?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 16:53

Any of the Eldar characters that have hit & run can join the unit.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 19:52

@Count Adhemar wrote:
What a bizarre ruling! Goes completely against what it says in the rulebook.

The rulebook is notoriously unclear in this respect, as in one area when they say "Psychic Unit" they're clearly talking about individual models, then in another area, specifically the one that bars them from using multiple powers, it's ambiguous because they set the precedent of saying "Psychic Unit" means any unit or model with a mastery level.

By doing this, whenever they later use the words "Psychic Unit", an argument can be made that they're talking about individual models, as defined in their own prior definition of "Psychic Unit".

The way he said they're ruling it is precisely how I thought GW intended for it to be ruled based on the (poor) writing. It doesn't make sense that two independent characters lose their psychic powers because a third independent character used one already. Either way, it'd be nice if GW would clarify their intention on this in a FAQ.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 18 2014, 22:18

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
What a bizarre ruling! Goes completely against what it says in the rulebook.

The rulebook is notoriously unclear in this respect, as in one area when they say "Psychic Unit" they're clearly talking about individual models, then in another area, specifically the one that bars them from using multiple powers, it's ambiguous because they set the precedent of saying "Psychic Unit" means any unit or model with a mastery level.

By doing this, whenever they later use the words "Psychic Unit", an argument can be made that they're talking about individual models, as defined in their own prior definition of "Psychic Unit".

The way he said they're ruling it is precisely how I thought GW intended for it to be ruled based on the (poor) writing. It doesn't make sense that two independent characters lose their psychic powers because a third independent character used one already. Either way, it'd be nice if GW would clarify their intention on this in a FAQ.

That argument might hold water if the rule in question used the term 'psyker unit' but it doesn't. In fact, it's absolutely 100% clear:

Quote :
no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase

If the intent was that the same model could not cast the same power more than once then they would simply have said "no psyker can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase". Under the strange interpretation that is being discussed, the above rule has zero effect and one therefore wonders why it is there if it does what the TO's seem to think it does, ie nothing?

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19 2014, 07:34

Ok, so I am not going to quote rules as I do not have the rulebook here.

The big problem with the rule is that people rule one way, and the break all other rulings. What i eman by that is that they dont think about the concquenses.

Now if you rule that I can only manifest the power once (as is fine by me) then by that ruling I can actually cast all powers known by every psycher in the unit by 1 dude. Now this is even more broken. Why you say?

I take a Farseer/spiritseer with sprit stone of anath'alan and I just cast every power with him. Yes this is RAW if you rule the above. Now ruling both of them away is just plain stupid and against all that the rulebook is saying.

Thats why guys who rule that you can manifest a power from the same "unit" several times do it.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19 2014, 07:58

And you can protect that (only) one invicibility Spiritseer you got from perils really easy.

I think that was the reason for that ruling in the ETC

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19 2014, 09:17

@Darklight wrote:
Ok, so I am not going to quote rules as I do not have the rulebook here.

The big problem with the rule is that people rule one way, and the break all other rulings. What i eman by that is that they dont think about the concquenses.

Now if you rule that I can only manifest the power once (as is fine by me) then by that ruling I can actually cast all powers known by every psycher in the unit by 1 dude.

That would be limited by the rule that says a psyker can only cast a number of powers per turn equal to his mastery level but we're getting way off topic now. If that's the way that your TO's have ruled then nothing I say is going to alter that and of course you should play according to the rules that your group/area plays by.

I guarantee that the guy who came up with that ruling plays Seer Council though Very Happy

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19 2014, 09:22

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Darklight wrote:
Ok, so I am not going to quote rules as I do not have the rulebook here.

The big problem with the rule is that people rule one way, and the break all other rulings. What i eman by that is that they dont think about the concquenses.

Now if you rule that I can only manifest the power once (as is fine by me) then by that ruling I can actually cast all powers known by every psycher in the unit by 1 dude.

That would be limited by the rule that says a psyker can only cast a number of powers per turn equal to his mastery level but we're getting way off topic now. If that's the way that your TO's have ruled then nothing I say is going to alter that and of course you should play according to the rules that your group/area plays by.

I guarantee that the guy who came up with that ruling plays Seer Council though Very Happy
Are you sure it limits it now these days of 7th? You are properly right and I have never played it in anotehr way, but I see people summoning with warpcharge 2 heralds/pink units etc.

And if its the cahse he may still cast Invisibility, Fortune and Forwarning or whatnought which is quite nasty.

If its not then he may cast all powers known.

Either way nasty

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19 2014, 09:30

Yep it's still a rule in 7e.

Quote :
The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

Again though, we should move this back on topic.

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 19 2014, 09:40

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Yep it's still a rule in 7e.

Quote :
The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

Again though, we should move this back on topic.

Well yess you are correct and then you come back to the tricky parrt. later it says you can try to manifest more if you have warpcharges left and then the only one power per unit comes in.

So its both these rules that frak eachother up.
Tbh I think RAI is you can cast same as long its not a brotherhood of psychers, and you can only cast as you said above, mastery level with powers and powers known to the psycher.

Anyway we are actually discussing the ruing now in our current gaming area and we are leaning towards that last ruling.

But yeah of topic Smile

Anyway, beaststar is still a *beast*. Dont need this ruling to go your way to rock with it. I'd still play the same list I played without it. I would just go for Hammerhand as soon as I got the Invisibility and fortune for Eldrad.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 15:28

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 15:48

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