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 Beaststar for 7th Edition

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Count Adhemar
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Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 09 2014, 15:33

I’ve been working on a guide to the Beaststar for some time but with the advent of 7th edition I have had to rewrite quite a lot of it. Here’s my current take, but expect this to all change if the rumoured new Dark Eldar codex arrives in a few months time!

Introduction
The Beaststar is a popular tournament build utilising some excellent synergy between our Beastmasters, Baron Sathonyx and an Eldar Farseer.  Here’s a brief rundown of what each element brings to the unit.

Khymerae – Decent in combat (S4, A3), particularly in large numbers, but more importantly they have a 4++ save and can therefore tank any high S (6+) shots that come their way.

Razorwing Flocks – Razorwings serve two functions in a Beaststar. Firstly, they have 5 wounds each. As long as you keep them away from Instant Death attacks they can keep on going at full effect for ages. Secondly, whilst only S3, they have 5 attacks each and they are Rending. This gives the unit the ability to take on 2+ saves and light to medium armour (up to AV12) as well as putting out a large volume of attacks to deal with hordes.

Clawed Fiends – Not generally seen in competitive builds due to the fact that they are inefficient for their points and do not actually benefit from their high Toughness in most cases (except when dealing with Instant Death). Best case scenario is that they take 3 wounds and end up with 7 S5 attacks. For fewer points you can take 3 Khymerae which give you 9 S4 attacks at higher Initiative or 2 Flocks which give you 10 S3 Rending attacks at the same Initiative. Unless you face opponents who regularly drop S6+ Barrages directly on the toughest model in your unit I’d leave the poor Clawed Fiend at home.

Beastmasters – Essential to take (as you need 1 Beastmaster for every 5 Khymerae or 2 Razorwing Flocks) they also serve as disposable models for challenges, keeping dangerous enemies away from your more valuable models for a while. With proper positioning they can also be very useful for wound allocation as they can use Look out, Sir! to redistribute wounds onto either Khymerae or Razorwings (or elsewhere) as needed. Due to only being Characters they do this on a 4+ so it’s hardly infallible but it can still be a useful tactic.

Baron Sathonyx – For a bargain points cost, this guy makes the whole unit tick. He gives them Stealth which can be pretty nice if you can run through cover on your way to your target. He also gives the unit Hit & Run, which means they should never be bogged down in combat unless you want them to be. He’s Jump Infantry, so he can keep up with the Beasts. He has a Shadowfield which, when combined with Fortune, theoretically allows him to tank pretty much any incoming wounds. He gives you +1 on the roll to go first. Possibly most importantly, he has a Phantasm Grenade Launcher, which allows the whole unit to strike at Initiative when charging into cover, as well as allowing the Baron to throw a Blind grenade on the charge with the possibility of lowering your opponents WS and BS to 1 until the end of their next turn.

Farseer – The major weakness of the Beaststar is morale. The Farseer counters that weakness by taking a piece of wargear called The Shard of Anaris. As well as giving the Farseer himself some pretty decent combat ability (and turning him into an absolute beast in a challenge), this makes the entire unit Fearless. It’s not cheap but it’s worth every penny. The Farseer also bring with him, access to some of the most useful psychic abilities in the game, specifically Divination, Telepathy and Runes of Fate. I’ll go into this a bit more in the Psychic section later on. The Farseer also adds a bit of anti-tank capability via his Armourbane rule on the Singing Spear or Witchblade. He will be mounted on an Eldar Jetbike in order to keep pace with the unit.  Some people like to take Eldrad Ulthran as an uber-psyker and for his Force Weapon but I personally feel that he slows the unit down and adds even more cost to an already expensive unit. He does however give a much better chance of that all-important Fortune and/or Invisibility.

Unit Composition
This will vary depending on the size of game and available points but at full strength you will typically see:

Baron Sathonyx – as a special character he has to be taken ‘as is’ so no options here.

Farseer – Eldar Jetbike, Shard of Anaris, Spiritstone of Anath’lan (see below). I also think that Runes of Warding and Witnessing are now extremely good and will usually take both if points allow.

5 Beastmasters – you could give one of them a weapon upgrade if you wanted to but they are pretty weak in combat and you really shouldn’t need the extra help in assault.

15 Khymerae

4 Razorwing Flocks

Some people run more Khymerae/less Flocks or even all Khymerae, and have great success with it. Personally I like to include the Flocks for ablative wounds and Rending attacks. YMMV.

Alternate Builds
Some people have looked at alternatives to the Farseer as they feel that the 7th edition psychic phase makes a single psyker ineffective due to lack of warp charges, particularly against a psyker-heavy army. This can indeed be a problem. Certain armies can have a HUGE number of warp charges (30 or more) and that will enable them to shut down your own psychic phase fairly frequently by simply chucking 15-20 dispel dice at your most important powers. The prime culprits here would be Daemons but ongoing play in 7th is leading many to believe that a Tzeentch Clown Car build (the build that would typically have the huge number of warp charges) is not in fact that good and you will be unlikely to actually encounter it. Other culprits include the Eldar Seerstar (typically 14-16 warp charges but could be more if multiple CADs are allowed) and Grey Knights (will vary depending on build but potentially 20+ warp charges).

A Farseer will bring Fearless, some form of defensive ability (Invisibility or Fortune) and possibly also an offensive buff in the form of witchfires, maledictions or melee buffs to the unit. Fearless is, in my opinion, essential to the Beaststar and therefore I’m limiting my comments to alternate builds that still bring this to the table.

First up we have Asdrubael Vect himself.  Vect brings Fearless and also allows rerolls of 1 to hit and wound due to Preferred Enemy against everything.  He’s also a bit of a combat monster with high WS, I and A with AP3 weaponry that wounds on a 3+. He also offers another Shadow Field and the highly valued ability to Seize the Initiative on a 4+. His drawbacks are that he is slower than the rest o f the unit and does not ignore difficult terrain. He also costs an absolutely massive 240 points, which somewhat limits him to larger games.

Eldar Phoenix Lords – With the exception of Baharroth, all Phoenix Lords suffer from the same movement problems as Vect. This is not insurmountable as you can start them off at the front of the unit, have the faster beasts overtake and then slingshot into combat but it’s a limitation and can be a drawback if not handled correctly. On the plus side, the Phoenix Lords are all Fearless, Eternal Warriors with 2+ armour saves who can offer melee and/or shooting support. Here’s a brief rundown of what each brings to the table:
Asurmen – multiple Warlord Traits (if Eldar is your primary), decent shooting, invulnerable save, AP2 melee attacks
Jain Zar – Disarming Strike, AP2 melee and shooting, Mask of Jain Zar (-5 WS and I for your opponents on turn you charge)
Karandras – Probably the pick of the bunch as he offers 6 x S8 AP2 melee attacks on the charge at I7. Sadly his Infiltrate ability is wasted due to crappy rules writing.
Feugan – FNP, deadly shooting, AT ability as well as AP1 melee attacks that get better as he takes wounds. Pretty decent!
Baharroth – Jump Infantry so he can keep up with the rest of the unit. Decent melee due to Shining Blade. Okay shooting (S5, AP5, Assault 3). Unfortunately he loses most of the benefits of his grenade pack, skyleap and herald of victory as he’ll be joined to the unit, not deep striking in.
Maugan Ra – Excellent shooting, decent melee. Shooting causes Pinning which can be useful as it prevents overwatch from the pinned unit. He also has Split Fire if he is your Warlord and can therefore be used to increase your options for assaulting (as the Beaststar can shoot at one unit, he can shoot at another and then you have the option to assault either unit).
Irillyth - (FW Imperial Armour 11) Excellent S7, AP2 shooting attacks, hit & run, invulnerable save and is jetpack infantry so should be able to keep up with the pack.

Overall I still feel that the Farseer offers the best options, especially as all the above characters are significantly more expensive than the Farseer. I am considering taking a second Farseer in my list for additional psychic support though.


Psychic Support
The changes in the psychic rules between 6e and 7e have made this section a little trickier as it is now harder to cast powers and you will generally be able to cast fewer powers unless you bring a LOT of mastery levels. There is a workaround for this though, in the form of the Spiritstone of Anath’lan – a Remnant of Glory from Codex Eldar. This has the effect of reducing the warp charge cost of your psychic powers by one (to a minimum of one) at the expense of your Farseer’s invulnerable save. As your Farseer should be safely tucked away in the middle of the unit, with a 3+ armour save, Jink and Look out, Sir,  I think this is a worthwhile sacrifice as some of the most important powers you will want are WC2 and you will only have D6+3 power dice to cast all your powers. So, let’s take a look at the available psychic disciplines:

Runes of Fate – The quintessential Eldar powers are actually a lot less useful than I would like but unfortunately this discipline contains the one gem that makes the Beaststar really function – Fortune! The ability to reroll failed saves (of any kind) and Deny the Witch rolls is absolutely incredible and this is why I will generally roll on this discipline until I get it (or I scream in frustration). The problem is that 2 of the other powers are pretty weak (Executioner, Mind War), another is an absolute turkey (Death Mission) , Doom and Eldritch Storm are pretty good but it’s quite hard to get a targeted spell off in 7e and you have better things to use your warp charges on. Fortunately you can swap one bad roll for Guide, which is a useful blessing to have. Basically, you want Fortune. If you get it on your first roll then great, move on to another discipline. If not, consider if you want to keep the power you rolled or swap for Guide. If you get Death Mission, definitely ditch it!

Telepathy – The changes to this discipline in 7e actually mean that you could consider ignoring Runes of Fate completely and throwing everything into this discipline. The reason for this is
Invisibility. In 6e this gave Stealth and Shrouded plus a couple of other benefits, which was pretty good. In 7e it makes everything snap fire against you and hit you on 6’s in assault. This is, quite simply, godly! You are immune to blasts and templates and everything else will miss 83% of the time! You can probably get one of Fortune and Invisibility and be pretty safe. Get both and you’re immortal! In addition to this gem, we have Dominate, which can be quite useful but suffers from the problem of casting targeted powers (they’re very easy to stop in many cases). Mental Fortitude can be useful in the right situation, as can Terrify, although it lost the ability to strip away Fearless for some reason. Shrouding turns you into a Venomthrope, which is quite cool and will give you a 2+ cover save when combined with most forms of terrain and Stealth granted by the Baron. Hallucination is quite weak now, especially for a WC2 power. The Primaris is pretty decent on this discipline so you can risk a couple of rolls to try for Invisibility, swapping any poor roll for Psychic Shriek.

Divination – This was my usual ‘go to’ discipline in 6e due to the ability to automatically pick up the amazing Prescience Primaris power. You can still do this but it’s now WC2 so it’s not quite as useful now, although with our handy Spiritstone we can bypass this shortcoming. If you have a spare power available after picking up Fortune or Invisibility then definitely put it here for Prescience. Of the other powers, Foreboding is almost pointless for us as our firepower is not the reason we take the Beaststar so a better Overwatch is not really that important. Counter-attack is useful if we get charged though. Forewarning is good as it provides added protection to our flocks and beastmasters and negates the penalty for the Spiritstone. Perfect Timing is wasted on a Beaststar. Precognition might be useful if you feel like taking challenges on the Farseer but personally I’d skip it. Misfortune is another potentially good power but not as good as it was in 6e. Unless you have a lot of reserves I’d also skip Scrier’s Gaze.

Malefic Daemonology – Yes, the Eldar can now summon Daemons of Slaanesh to aid them in battle! No you shouldn’t do it or indeed anything else from this discipline. And not just to save any fluff lovers from a potential aneurism. With Perils of the Warp on any double and all of the useful powers being WC3 (2 with the Spiritstone) you simply cannot rely on getting the powers you want to work and if you do you still run a big risk of Perils.  Don’t do it!

Sanctic Daemonology – There are actually some pretty decent powers in this discipline. Hammerhand would turn a Beaststar into an even bigger threat. Gate of Infinity could pull off some interesting redeployment tactics but trying to deep strike a unit with such a massive footprint as the Beaststar is just asking for a mishap. Purge Soul is like Mind War but better. Sanctuary could be good but is rather situational. Cleansing Flame helps with Hordes but frankly we don’t really need help with them. Vortex of Doom I wouldn’t touch with a bargepole. However, we have the same problem as Malefic in that Perils is any double, although the useful powers here are mostly WC1 so not such a huge issue.

To summarise, the powers we really want are Fortune or Invisibilty. You basically have 2 rolls on either table to try to get one of them, with a possibility of a decent other power or swapping for the Primaris. If you pick up either of those in your first two rolls, head for Divination and grab Prescience but the Beaststar can function without it if need be and indeed it can be a bonus not to reroll misses as it can keep you in combat during the opponents turn.

Movement
It’s probably worthwhile going over the movement rules for the various unit types involved in this unit.

The Razorwings, Khymerae and Beastmasters are all Beasts. As such they have Fleet (as do all members of this unit), move 12”, are not slowed by difficult terrain (even when charging) and automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests. Note however that the Initiative penalty for charging into terrain still applies (hence needing the Baron to provide grenades).  

The Baron himself is Jump Infantry. He therefore can use his Jump move to go 12” in the movement phase, moving over all other models and all terrain freely. If he begins or ends his move in difficult terrain, he must take a Dangerous Terrain test but this can be re-rolled with his Master of the Skies ability. If he uses his 12” move in the movement phase he is not able to reroll his charge distance in the assault phase but Fleet gives him that ability anyway so the only thing he loses is his Hammer of Wrath attack.

The Farseer is an Eldar Jetbike so, like the Baron, he can move 12”, is not slowed down by difficult terrain (even when charging). He treats all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain instead. He can move over all other models and terrain freely. However, if he begins or ends his move in difficult terrain, he must take a Dangerous Terrain test. He does not get the Baron’s reroll on this.
All models in the unit fall back 3D6” if required (but are Fearless with the Shard of Anaris).

Power from Pain
As the rules stand at the time of writing, all members of the Beaststar benefit from Pain Tokens generated by the unit. Worth remembering but expect it to be FAQ’d at some point. Personally I play that only models with the Power from Pain rule benefit from tokens.

Tactics
At its most basic level, the Beaststar is a simple creature. Just point it at something you don’t like and watch it kick the granny out of your chosen target. On the charge, a fully loaded Beaststar (as set out above) chucks out 5 S6 attacks (Baron), 3 S5 Rending attacks (Farseer), 60 S4 attacks (Khymerae), 24 S3 Rending attacks (Razorwings) and 10 S3 attacks (Beastmasters). That’s over 100 attacks at minimum WS of 4 (up to 6 for Baron) and minimum Initiative of 5! There’s really not too much that can survive that sort of punishment. If it does, you can simply stay in combat for your opponents turn and then Hit & Run out, ready to charge back in on your own turn.

Beyond being a gigantic beatstick though, the Beaststar does have other uses. Due to the size of the unit (25 x 40mm bases plus Jetbike and Skyboard) the Beaststar occupies a huge chunk of battlefield real estate and this can be used to cause problems for your opponent.  If facing a Drop Pod army, for example, you can spread the Beaststar out over a huge area, denying your opponent space in which to land his pods. You could, if you’re feeling mean, also spread the unit all along an entire table edge, which would then prevent most units entering from reserve along that edge. I’m not entirely certain if this still works in 7e though so I stand to be corrected!

Due to having several different elements, it is possible to split up towards the end of the game to cover several objectives. The Baron and Farseer can be detached and, particularly in the case of the Farseer, can travel quite significant distance to contest or claim an objective.

Drawbacks
The Beaststar does not have the Objective Secured rule so, whilst it is a scoring unit, it will be unable to contest an objective held by units with the Objective Secured rule. You can however get round this by simply killing the offending unit, leaving the objective in your paws/claws/talons/hands.

The Beaststar has almost no answer to flyers or to vehicles/building with AV higher than 12.

The size of the unit can be a drawback at times. If forced to fight in narrow confines it can be tricky to get more than a few models into combat. Make sure you get the right ones in!

Conclusion
I hope I've covered most things here but do please feel free to correct anything you feel is inaccurate or make any comments or suggestions you feel would improve the article.

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Last edited by Count Adhemar on Wed Sep 17 2014, 14:31; edited 6 times in total
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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 09 2014, 17:17

Great work! Thank you so much for your devotion, Adhemar  cheers

EDIT.

Okay, now I've read the entire sentences. I'm not sure of its efficiency - it doesn't mean that the Beaststar strategy is bad, but I need more time to simulate the battle in my brain  Wink 

Nevertheless, the Beaststar looks awesomely interesting for me! I may start to gather the beast models for this strategy (basically I've been playing with Warriors/Trueborns for years)

Thank you again!
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 09 2014, 19:50

You forgot mention Clawed Fiends  Sad 

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 09 2014, 21:33

@Devilogical wrote:
You forgot mention Clawed Fiends  Sad 

Not so much forgot as omitted, as they don't really have a place in a competitive Beaststar. But I'll add something about them, just for you!  Very Happy 

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 09 2014, 22:50

Good write-up! Thank you for the effort you've put into that guide, Count Adhemar. I think it has all eh basics covered, your choice of units is pretty much spot on, the variations (i.e. to take flocks or not to take flocks) is in, psychic power selection is in, and even a little guide about moving them. In short, everything important is covered.

If you want to take this to the next step, play some games with it and post some pictures from above the table to give an idea of the footprint and movement, since everything else is basically good rolling for psychics and assault Wink

Cheers Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 05:33

Count Adhemar- I enjoyed the write up and I think it will help with some of the topics that have been popping up.

For suggestions maybe consider branching out to cover what other ICs bring to the unit. For example malys, vect, karandras, irillyth ( I use the latter two currently on karandras). This will alter the basic build of the pack as flocks become less necessary and the pack turns more offensive but also more fragile. Its also worth noting the weakness of the seer to barrage, especially things like grot bomms and orbital bombardment especially now that he cant hide in the bottom level of multi story ruins (depending on how your ground plays it).

Lastly theres a few more uses I've found for the pack:

-bubble wrapping of objectives and things you dont want assaulted.

-forcing flyers to crash. This one is great and still viable in 7th. Its basically our best defense against flyers. Alternately they can at least deny model placement forcing flyers to limit their impact.

-throwing 20 grenades into the firepoint of a building/bunker etc. Barons PGL gives grenades to every model and everyone in proximity can toss one in. I just picked this trick up recently here on TDC.

Thats what ive got for now. Thanks for taking the time brother.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 09:09

The rules for all grenade types still say one model from a unit may throw...

And Count, great write up. You've covered the unit superbly. Thanks for your effort!

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 09:14

@Brom wrote:

Barons PGL gives grenades to every model and everyone in proximity can toss one in. I just picked this trick up recently here on TDC.

No, it's not.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 10:31

A couple of words about Daemonology.
Sanctic Primaris power is something you should take first when you face Screamerstar. It will be very handy as usually they have 3++ (given by the Book) with re-rollable ones.
But if your opponent rolls Cursed Earth power, which is increasing inv. save of all Daemons - you will be in trouble.
2++ with re-rollable ones is much better than our Fortune on Baron. So you are dead if you don't take some counter-measure like Banishment power.
Of course it is very situational, but it doesn't affect you army list and it doesn't need a lucky roll when you choosing a power. Just take that Banishment when you see a screamerstar.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 12:30

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Devilogical wrote:
You forgot mention Clawed Fiends  Sad 

Not so much forgot as omitted, as they don't really have a place in a competitive Beaststar. But I'll add something about them, just for you!  Very Happy 

"Clawed Fiends are big beasts. You'll encounter these most likely in the local gaming store hanging on the selves unsold."

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 14:26

On the pgl I'm away from my books for a couple days but read the wording on the pgl. Models count as being equipped with assault/defensive grenades. Building firepoints allow every model in range to throw a grenade inside. Pretty straight forward and commonly accepted around the tournament scene from what I've read.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 16:14

@Brom wrote:
On the pgl I'm away from my books for a couple days but read the wording on the pgl. Models count as being equipped with assault/defensive grenades. Building firepoints allow every model in range to throw a grenade inside. Pretty straight forward and commonly accepted around the tournament scene from what I've read.
Unfortunately it looks like this doesn't work in 7th edition. My group has scoured the rulebook and it doesn't look like you can throw grenades into building firepoints anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 16:24

What bothers me a little, is, that you have to use some characters.
Isn't there a way to go without the baron and the farseer?

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 16:48

@Zenotaph wrote:
What bothers me a little, is, that you have to use some characters.
Isn't there a way to go without the baron and the farseer?

They need baron for grenades most of all.
And farseer gives them some nice buffs.

Best way to use beastar without character is big blob of khimeras, or swift group of clawed fiends.

First one is big and scary enouth to make ur opponent fire at them, so u can save rest of ur list.
Second is doing pretty same job, exept they are usualy in smaller nombers.
And both can easy make it to enemy and charge (probably even in turn 1) wich is always good for us.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 18:00

I know that, but it still bothers me. The baron is an outlaw, so what is he doing within a wychcult army?

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 19:50

@Zenotaph wrote:
I know that, but it still bothers me. The baron is an outlaw, so what is he doing within a wychcult army?

Good question.
Why he is on thr battlefield ether  tongue 

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 10 2014, 20:00

@Devilogical wrote:
Good question.
Why he is on thr battlefield ether  tongue 

Because he's dark eldar. He lives from the pain of others. Where else to look for?
But on the other side: What army would you build, when going straight to fluff?
Good question, but wrong thread. Let me think about it. Maybe there will be a new thread.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 01:01

@Bugs_N_Orks wrote:
@Brom wrote:
On the pgl I'm away from my books for a couple days but read the wording on the pgl. Models count as being equipped with assault/defensive grenades. Building firepoints allow every model in range to throw a grenade inside. Pretty straight forward and commonly accepted around the tournament scene from what I've read.
Unfortunately it looks like this doesn't work in 7th edition.  My group has scoured the rulebook and it doesn't look like you can throw grenades into building firepoints anymore.
Ah good to know. Again I'm away from my books but thanks for the heads up. It was a little busted anyway.

Back on track, the baron and farseer are not mandatory by any means, but their inclusion allows you to more safely invest in a larger pack. Without hit and run and more importantly fearless you risk losing your investment. A pack led by vect though would be just fine.. or 3 haemies. For 150 + gear you now get a whole pack of fearless fnp s5 charging. Add say a combined arms archon with huskblade/agonizer + pgl and other toys furious charging and your set. Personally I love my baron model but usually find his in game performance meh. Otherwise I've also run multiple packs to good success. This thread was focused more around the most common competitive build but there are many viable ways to build a pack.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 03:54

The Clawed Fiend is excellent at tanking wounds and large blasts that would otherwise double out or cause massive casualties. I think he even got better now that you can 4+ cover almost everywhere in 7th. Plus he gives you an extra boost to killing vehicles in CC. Pumping him for 8 attacks at strength 5 isn't too bad either.

To say he doesn't have a place in competitive lists is rather closed minded. Have you used him before in lists? he is rather good and would surprise you. I play competitively and use him in all my Beastpacks, and he does well when used correctly. But I guess it is a lot easier to use Khymera or Flocks since they are very point and click. The Fiend does take some tactical acumen to use so I am not surprised if people don't use him.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 08:51

I don't see Beaststar as reliable tournament army in 7th for one reason. You Farseer will generate 3 WC, +1D6, its far too low. Any GK or Inqisition or Deamons, Eldars Seercouncil, even Tyranids and Space Marines (if with Tigurius and Librarian), will have more WC and enough dices to deny your fortune/invis. Without those spells Beaststar is easy to kill so any smart player will just wait for you to roll that Fortune and then throw all his deny dices.
If DE primary you cant get more than 4 WC (Eldrad). As Eldar primary you can take 2 Farseers (6 WC). Still too low against some armies.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 09:26

@Zanais wrote:
I don't see Beaststar as reliable tournament army in 7th for one reason. You Farseer will generate 3 WC, +1D6, its far too low. Any GK or Inqisition or Deamons, Eldars Seercouncil, even Tyranids and Space Marines (if with Tigurius and Librarian), will have more WC and enough dices to deny your fortune/invis. Without those spells Beaststar is easy to kill so any smart player will just wait for you to roll that Fortune and then throw all his deny dices.
If DE primary you cant get more than 4 WC (Eldrad). As Eldar primary you can take 2 Farseers (6 WC). Still too low against some armies.

Yeah. But it could be worse. You may never take eldar allies, so you will have only d6 WC.
Now that would be a pain in one place.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 09:36

@Zanais wrote:
I don't see Beaststar as reliable tournament army in 7th for one reason. You Farseer will generate 3 WC, +1D6, its far too low. Any GK or Inqisition or Deamons, Eldars Seercouncil, even Tyranids and Space Marines (if with Tigurius and Librarian), will have more WC and enough dices to deny your fortune/invis. Without those spells Beaststar is easy to kill so any smart player will just wait for you to roll that Fortune and then throw all his deny dices.
If DE primary you cant get more than 4 WC (Eldrad). As Eldar primary you can take 2 Farseers (6 WC). Still too low against some armies.

Whilst I'd agree that there is a potential problem there, I think you need to realise that, unlike some other deathstars, the Beaststar still functions without psychic powers, albeit at reduced effectiveness. Against GK I'll just throw all my deny dice against Force and/or Hammerhand and then mulch them in combat. A Daemon summoning list will necessarily involve a large number of small, weak units in close proximity to each other. I guess I'll just multi-charge the lot of them! Space Marines and Tyranids I really don't see as bringing enough warp charge to be a real problem and that basically leaves Seerstar, which was a problem for pretty much any army in 6e and remains so in 7e.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 09:47

I know beaststar is great in combat even without fortune on invis. Problem is getting there, Khymera is T3 with 4++, it wont stand against massed shooting. Fortune or Invis are crucial for Beaststar to reach combat and if they are denied shooting armies will just kill enough khymeras to greatly reduce Beaststar  strength.
As for GK, best GK lists out there have 10+ WCs from troops alone, Deamon Factory has 20+.

In my opinion, and of course I can be wrong, either go psyker heavy army or no psykers at all. Against armies with no psykers, sure, Beaststar might work. Of course you need to get invis/fortune and not be denied, but its hard to deny for no-psykers armies. But against all those psyker-heavy armies I would prefer to take more raw firepower than risk with beaststar.

I just wrote tyranids as example, dont know if Tyranids top lists become psyker heavy but I suppose it will be FMC heavy.

Seercouncil was nerfed too, deny their fortune/invis, they cant cast it again, and just shoot them.

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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 17:35

The amount of dedicated firepower it takes from armies is staggering, with or without Fortune. To increase your charges, you could run Iyanden Allies and grab a number of Spiritseers for Invisibility. But then again, they are very expensive once you begin taking 3-5 of them.

I think the Spirit Stone will help even if you only have the one Farseer. Reducing the Warp Charge can be the difference between casing it 3 times or 4, and having your opponent have to Deny it 1 extra time than they normally should could mean you get the power off more often than not.
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PostSubject: Re: Beaststar for 7th Edition   Beaststar for 7th Edition I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 11 2014, 23:40

Played Beaststar tonight against a GK/Ultramarine list and won 8-3. The beasts absorbed pretty much everything that was fired at them and destroyed 2 tactical squads, 2 rhinos, a vindicator and a GK terminator squad in combat. And the GK's were invisible!

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