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Angaurrith
Hellion
Angaurrith

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Join date : 2011-08-02
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PostSubject: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 05 2011, 21:15

Greetings my dark brothers and sisters.

After seeing the new Medusae models and re-reading through my codex, I thought of an interesting idea for my 1,500 point army's HQ.

I want to use an Archon, first of all. I am not sure yet on the build for him specifically. For his retinue I wanted two Medusae. Mind you, this is more of a ranged unit. Three models does not a squad (at least not these three) make, so I thought about what else to add. The Sslyth looked like a good option, but it doesn't benefit from FNP. The Lhamaeans looked good too, but besides having two poison 2+ weapons, and making my Archon's splinter pistol 2+ if he even takes one, they just didn't seem like the best option.

I then turned my attention to the Haemonculi. Using two of the three I am allowed to take, I can keep the retinue to five models, thus taking a Venom. Here is where I ask for your assistance.

I want some feedback. First, on the idea I have here. Do you think it is something worth trying? Have you yourself tried it? Second, I want some possible builds for the Haemonculi and the Archon. I have some ideas for the Haemonculi, but I want to keep the squad to less than 500 points (mind you, I would most likely use this squad in games up to 3,000 points).

Many thanks to you, my depraved kin.
~Lord Angaurrith, Kabal of the Seventh Seal

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astorre
Hellion
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Posts : 76
Join date : 2011-07-12

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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 05 2011, 21:29

What makes the court not worth taking in my humble opinion is that you have to take one of each type. Which after that if you add the Archon would take up the Venom's space.
If you could only take Slythh & UrGhuls (and if the UrGhuls came in more than one pose lol) then maybe they would be worth it but as is now you have to spend points on useless models to just take an extra transport, not very economical.
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Nepenthe
Kabalite Warrior
Nepenthe

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Location : Helsinki, Finland

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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 05 2011, 22:30

There is no good reason to put the court with the archon. If you want one, they operate better alone.

Ran out of fingers counting the original proposal, but it doesn't look like you're clear on needing at least one of each selection from the court, certainly not if you're going to squeeze two haemies along with the archon in a venom. Smile

And haemies and the court are a poor match, only the lhamaean and the medusae benefit from PfP.

Also, couldn't disagree more on the medusae being described as "useless". Disagree a bit with the lhamaeans, too. Razz
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 06 2011, 00:12

^^
This pretty much.
And I believe Medusae are sweet and Lhamaens are pretty much useless.

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Angaurrith
Hellion
Angaurrith

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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 06 2011, 06:09

Alright. Looking at the Codex now I see the problem with the court. Looks like I am re-working my build now.

Originally, before seeing that I had to take one of each model, I wanted only the two Medusae and the two Haemies along with the Archon, that way they all benefited from Pfp. The Haemies would have taken a liquifier each and scissorhands for cc. The Archon was the only one I was unsure of for a build.

I have been running my Archon with a blast pistol, agoniser, ghostplate, shadow field, combat drugs, and haywire grenades, along with four Incubi (one a Klaivex with demiklaves), and in a Venom. It has worked pretty well, getting my Archon Fnp before the Incubi get wiped out, and then with the really lucky rolls I get with my Archon he always rips through several squads before getting a single wound. His record is a Termie Sergeant and Librarian, then taking down ten more marines, and thirty or so Fire Warriors (two seperate battles, but only the Archon was alive for either). The only reason I wanted to look for a new retinue was purely for the fun of it, not that mine wasn't working.

Thanks for all the feedback though, it is much appreciated. Twisted Evil

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Nepenthe
Kabalite Warrior
Nepenthe

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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 06 2011, 09:36

@Thor665 wrote:
^^
This pretty much.
And I believe Medusae are sweet and Lhamaens are pretty much useless.
The Lhamaean isn't exactly mind-blowing, but it's cheap 2+ wounding short range and in CC, so a pretty decent match for the Medusa and Sslyth. The Ur-Ghul is imo the one that sticks out, with the weak T/fnp combo. :/
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Pariah Stevo
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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 07 2011, 05:51

Personally, I'm really looking at putting my Leader (I usually run Vect) with 4 Grotesques in a Raider w/ maybe some atherial sails. That is basically 12 T5 Wounds w/ FNP to wrap around your killing machine. If you add a Hemonculus to the squad with some goodies, the squad will start with Furious Charge, making the squad hit HARD from the get go. And even in a points senario, they are a steal. Now if I can only find some models that don't look like dump.
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Angaurrith
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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 07 2011, 05:55

Alright. I am working on my conversion for my Archon now. After posting about my Kabal here, I began to look for the models I will need for a full conversion.

I would like him to wield some kind of agoniser. My biggest concern is which one? From what I have seen, there are four different agoniser varients. The first two, the ones with the Wych and Warrior squads, are rather...boring. The other two are much more interesting. The first is in the Scourge squad, and the reason I like that one is that it is double pronged. The other, which will make my Archon look more sinister, is the one included in the Wrack squad. I am sure you can all imagine what it looks like.

Another problem is the opposite arm. I am not sure what would be best. In the past I have run an Archon with a blast pistol, which was always nice because I could take out a model in the opposing squad in the shooting phase before assaulting with six attacks from an agoniser. I wonder now, is it more worth it to take a splinter pistol? Or perhaps a blaster? Or maybe even no ranged weapon at all? And, if I didn't take a ranged weapon, what should I replace it with?

With all that said, I beseech you now my Dark Kin, what are your thoughts? I have thought about running him with four grotesque and a Haemi, but it was more the dollar cost then the point cost that I am worried about there Razz

Many thanks to you for your time.

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Thor665
Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 07 2011, 06:30

Splinter pistol is the best off hand weapon for cost (free) available to the Archon.

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Angaurrith
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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 07 2011, 23:40

Alright, thank you.

I was speaking to a man I am friends with who is employed by GW, and who also happens to play Dark Eldar. We spoke today specifically about the court and the rules for its composition. He said that from his view of the codex, and for every other employee of GW he has spoken of (maybe its a PA thing, I don't know) about the court, that you do not have to take all of them, just what you want.

I am not sure how that will fly at official games and such, but seeing as I do not plan on playing any official games any time soon, I am not too worried.

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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 08 2011, 01:26

Frankly, they are 'meh' enough that I think an opponent should do darn near anything to help you field them, even field them illegally Wink

But, per the rules pg 84.
It tells you the maximum and the *minimum* of what you're allowed to take in a unit.
With all due respect to those GW guys, they appear not to understand how to read a very basic and common rule that is universal to all codices - they're wrong, you do have to take at least one of each.

That said, if they'll let you break that rule, *go for it*, it ought to make it possible to field a half decent little Court option.

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Thor665
Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 08 2011, 01:28

As a good comparison - make them look at page 90 under Beastmasters and note what the minimum numbers for the Beast selections are.

Then look again at the Court.

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Angaurrith
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PostSubject: Re: Archon/Retinue Build   Archon/Retinue Build I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 08 2011, 02:33

That is what I said. I was arguing for the fact that you needed one of each. But oh well, if they want to let me field them then that's on them.

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