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 The Death of a Space Marine Hero

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Calmoret
Ly'khal the Exiled
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Count Adhemar
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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 08:58

My bad If i wasn't clear in my previous post Adhemar, I should have been more specific. Panic Puppet is right, my friend runs Shield Eternal when he plays Vanilla marines(Iron Hands Chapter Tactics), and Gorgon Chain when he runs Clan Raukaan. He has a penchant for the Iron Hands.

I like the "Shardnet" idea. Its rules state models in base to base contact are effected, but I'm not sure if that transfers through to challenges. I don't have a 7th ed rule book yet. Anyone know?

Denying the Marines attacks is useful, I tried a Clonefield/Huskblade Archon against him, held out for a few turns and did some wounds. The combat lasted exactly as long as my Shadowfield did.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 09:33

@flakmonkey wrote:
I like the "Shardnet" idea. Its rules state models in base to base contact are effected, but I'm not sure if that transfers through to challenges. I don't have a 7th ed rule book yet. Anyone know?

The challenge rule says that models in a challenge are considered to be in base contact with each other and the shardnet works on any model in base contact with the wielder. So if the character in the challenge has a shardnet then it would certainly work on his opponent.

The 7e rules do however make one subtle change in that the models used to be considered to be in base contact only with each other, which appears to no longer be the case. So other models in the combat who have shardnets could still use them on the model in the challenge.

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 10:13

Even further than that, it suggests swapping one character for a model in base contact. So the way to do it would be to hit the unit such that 3 shardnets and any one other model are in base contact with the Chapter Master, and then swap positions of the character and the other model as the challenge goes off.

The disadvantage to this is that any Marine player with half a brain will accept with the sergeant, leaving Chapter Master Facesmasher free to batter you in subsequent rounds if the shardnets start to die.

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 12:15

It could definitely be a successful tactic to employ the Bloodbrides, and as Crazy Irish said, throw in an Archon(clonefield for extra lols) and poke away. It's interesting that the rules would allow interference from outside the challange. I wonder if that will be FAQ'd or just slip under the radar.
I did look into the Vindicare as well (I've been a fan of Allies since it came out, it lets me have a varied collection) and his Shield Breaker could be devastating.  
Once the wargear is gone, its open season.

So, some options for my Marine-on-a-bike shaped problem-

CC solution
1. An Archon(Huskblade, Venomblade,  Soultrap, Clonefield) with 9 Bloodbrides(3 Shardnets) in a Raider (with Flickerfields or any other 10 point upgrade) is about 372 points.

Shooting Solution
2. A cheap Inquisitor(Xenos for the fluff, with Servo Skulls, Carapace and 2 Needle Pistols) the Vindicare and the smallest Grey Knight Strike Squad will come in at around 314 points

Both would most likely be followed by a hail of Splinters, as originally suggested.


Last edited by flakmonkey on Tue Jun 03 2014, 12:34; edited 1 time in total
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 12:32

Yeah. and the Inquisitor could be a great toy for any haemi after the battle.  Twisted Evil 

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 13:34

I've given my Dark Eldar lots of playthings, I mean Allies, for their battles. Tau, Chaos Marines, Guardsmen, Craftworld pansies.
I like to think my Kabal is well known in Sec Maegra. Although how an Inquisitor, a Vindicare and a squad of Knights ended up in Null City and available for hire would be an interesting story.

I think I prefer the Vindicare option.
1. A "hit" with a Shieldbreaker round removes ALL invun saves provided by wargear (Iron Halo, Shield, Chain, whatever.) Thanks to Count Adhemar for pointing this out. And to Zenotaph for suggesting it.
2. Deal with the invun issue. Permanently.
3. I get to make or paint an Assassin.
4. I can still shoot at the Hammermaster with Splinter fire later.

The pure DE option seems to rely on a few too many randoms. I have to hope the Hammermaster is not in a squad, or that he's in a position within the squad that'll allow me to surround with BBs. Then I may have to rules lawyer the effect of shardnets in a challenge. Then I have to wait for my Archon to stick him to death. The whole time contending with the formidable saves and weaponry.

I am of course still open to suggestions.
I'll make up a list with this allied detachment, I'd love to hear what you think of it, so I'll post a link here. If I can.
1750 List
I can! I think

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 13:45

Why use grey knights? They are pretty expensive. Use Inquisitor Coteaz.
With him, an inquisitorial retinue is troops choice. Much plasma weapons out of a Chimera.



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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 14:13

@flakmonkey wrote:
I like to think my Kabal is well known in Sec Maegra. Although how an Inquisitor, a Vindicare and a squad of Knights ended up in Null City and available for hire would be an interesting story.

I think this is an amazing opportunity to have your Dark Eldar come upon the services of a Rogue Trader and associates.

Your Inquisitor is the Captain, the Vindicare is the Captain's closely trusted ex-military sniper and add a squad of Henchmen for the bodyguard he keeps around when sullying his boots in the dirt with backstabbing xenos.

The fluff of it makes more sense than Grey Knights, the models could be *awesome* and the end result is a dead SM Hammermaster!



If only buying a DE army hadn't already taken my hobby budget for the next eternity away I'd be on this myself...
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Ly'khal the Exiled
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 13 2014, 20:54

The Chapter Master is a freaking scary unit on his own right and will most likely be attached to a bike squadron or a command squad on bikes. I would either lure him out from the unit with a bait unit or make him tank the wounds from his retinue, especially when dealing with the gorgon's chain variant. Like earlier said, he becomes much less of a threat when he loses the +1 to his FnP rolls.

And unlike earlier said, AP2 is your friend against this guy. AP2 forces him to tank the incoming shots OR sacrifice his squad members (which he will unlikely do). If you go with the path of the melee combat, snipe off off couple of wounds and send in the hard hitters (grots already mentioned, a pair of Taloi, if you have CWE as allies, wraithknight works like a charm) OR just tarpit him with wyches (I wouldn't use beasts, they often have targets of their own and altough I know that they'd win him eventually, you don't wan't to keep them down there with him for 3-4 turns). When he's rolling his 3+ save, his chances to fail increases.

I'm saying this also from the point of view of the opponent. When I play my Raukaan Chapter Master, I hate when my opponent starts to concentrate his AP2 fire against my prize unit. I often play him tagged with a Dark Angels Ravenwing Command Squadron (the most scary combo I've used/seen so far, monstrous tbh) and If I have to take a save against AP2 shooting, I'm more likely to let the big guy to make the saves. Which will eventually fail.

He is very tough and can be made EVEN TOUGHER with a right unit. I've also duelled down a Wraithknight with him, I've ran down a full beast pack with him on his own in a single round of combat (ok, the Farseer with Shard was "absent" atm but still..). He's a monster but he can be brought down. Just mass those AP2 guns if you manage. Or just tie the bastard down. For every turn he can't be used to hurt your valuable units, you have time to evade him. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 14 2014, 08:08

Just because I have never found a use for these before, mindphase guantlets. If you can just make 3 hits a turn its like a 86% (I think) chance to shutdown all attacks (and that can be improved through craftyness). Add in some grots, 2 homonculi (maybe an ancient if your feeling expensive, or a shatter shard which is awesome if he charges your squad, d3 overwatch) your still cheaper then him and will tie him up all game, maybe even kill him just due to the weight of wounds the grots can put out (outside chance). Also due to the grots T, 3 pain tokens, and wounds even if you miss a round you wont instantly lose the squad, you could probably afford to mess up 3-4 rounds, meaning it would take somewhere in the vicinity of 18 rounds of combat to put you down. You can also go for the triple homunculi with any other squad you feel like fighting with (incubi, wyches, warriors if you want to minimize point investment)
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 15 2014, 23:56

I keep hearing huskblade, but doesn't this guy have Eternal Warrior? I don't know what all these SM toys do but I think someone mentioned that early on. No point in a huskblade.

Overwatch with a shattershard seems a waste, but I guess if you can get his unit down to just Mr Hammer before he charges you that would be awesome.

People keep saying AP2 guns, but I'm with the Count on this one - it's a lot easier to get off the required number of splinter shots than AP2 shots. He'll roll 1s eventually, whereas you just know if you're firing 3 lances at a time toward him he'll make all those 3-ups. Let your darklight do its usual anti-tank job and pump him full of pins.

What about a couple of cannonborn venoms? Never really see those used but this is a special situation.
I love MNDF's idea for the rogue trader background too Smile

By the way, I hope when you finally kill this guy we get a full and detailed report! A photo of your opponent's face in the moment... a vial of his blood... wait no

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 15 2014, 00:41

You could try your luck with implosion missiles, if anything it could thin out his squad and on a bad roll or two he'll be dead without much of a fight.
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 18 2014, 09:53

Since asking for help from the Dark Kin, I haven't faced of against the Hammer Master again. My friend has discovered a new found love of tanks and Forge Fathers and Tech Marines. Easier to put down, that is, if they get out of the Landraider, Rhino, Razorback or Dreadnought they're hiding in, repairing or standing behind. They still are a prickly prospect (2+ armour, flmaer, plasma pistol, restoring HPs on a 3+) but dont have quite the same damage output.

He and his Hammermaster have also beaten everyone in the gaming group, so he was happy for a change in style.

On a side note, I made a squad of "Grey Knights"(Chaos+loyalist combo) and now a new codex has dropped and assassins are now a dataslate. So I can take a Vindicare without the Inquisitor or Grey Knight squad. Cool.

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 18 2014, 10:38

Three dissie ravagers are my typical choice vs marine armies. 27 shots, 18 hits, 12 wounds ignoring armor save.

Btw, I met the combination of Mephiston and Corbulo last weekend, which was HORRIBLE. (Please note my battle report for details) I really should have made my beaststar avoid the Blood Angel heroes.

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 18 2014, 16:52

We're a struggling codex for sure, but even I won't stoop low enough to field the Mephistar... It's also coincidentally Slow-as-tar if you get rid of their ride, and pretty easy to avoid.

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 19 2014, 01:31


I think the inherent weakness of the eldar (T3) will always be with us. I doubt we will ever have the toughness to outlast a space marine hero
But we still have access to AP2 weapons, wether on an archon or Incubi. Some new weapons, or some additional rules for those weapons would be appreciated though.

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 20 2014, 22:28

I wonder how our Inccubi (maybe with Klaivex and/or Drazhar) would fare vs the Space Marine Hero?
They are said to be our executioners right?

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 21 2014, 00:44

Let's find out.

On the charge 10 Incubi would deal 1-2 wounds. Probably closer to one because of feel no pain.
He would then smash 3-4 of them.
The next round the incubi would be lucky to cause one wound. Being down to 12-14 attacks.
He would then smash another 3-4.
If the incubi don't break and get overrun. The slap at him with their klaives he'd laugh it of and turn them into paste.

With a Klaivex the probability on the charge is is still lower end on the 1-2 wounds, and the battle would still turn out much the same way. +1 S for the demiklaive helps, but not enough.

Now let's put Drazhar a Klaivex and 8 incubi (because you don't want them footslogging on a raider, and go to town. Let's give the Klaivex murderous assault. And I'll even try to factor in the extra attacks from onslaught.

With all that on the charge, they still only have a chance of causing 1.9 wounds. If he's fresh. If you've softened him up even a little they could potentially take him out.

That unit costs 473 points 543 Including a transport. And it'll 1.9 wounds to that unit on the charge.

You can buy 8 venoms for that, and they should average 3.57. After he loses fnp it goes up.

This is why they say chop the shooty ones and shoot the choppy ones.

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