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 The Death of a Space Marine Hero

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 10:13

Hey,

So I've got this friend who plays Marines. Of all varieties, (Vanilla, Blood Angel, Raukaan). His standard HQ choice is either a Chapter Master or Captain.
On a bike.
With a Thunder Hammer.
And The Shield Eternal.
And now The Gorgon Chain.

It smashes face. Repeatedly.

So my question is this. How do I go about killing this *Deleted*?
He is toughness 5, 2+/3++ and has either 3 or 4 wounds.

I have tried the obvious, lots of Splinter fire. I threw a Talos at him. The first game I used a Wraithknight, and the Hammermaster brought it down.

What other suggestions, either tactics or unit choices and compositions do people recommend for taking him down?

I appreciate the help

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 10:17

Weight of fire is almost always your best bet against something with a ridiculous defense like this guy. Make him roll enough saving throws and he will roll 3 or 4 1's eventually. In the meantime, try to keep away from him so he can't hide in assault and prevent you firing at him on your turn.

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 10:32

I found it hard to generate the number of shots required. Especially at AP2.

But I was rather light on Dark Lances during our last encounter. Are we talking about Ravagers blasting him?

Also, the addition of "It Will Not Die" means that putting him down over two turns can be difficult.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 10:39

@flakmonkey wrote:
I found it hard to generate the number of shots required. Especially at AP2.

But I was rather light on Dark Lances during our last encounter. Are we talking about Ravagers blasting him?

Also, the addition of "It Will Not Die" means that putting him down over two turns can be difficult.

Ignore AP2 - he gets a 3++ save from the Shield anyway and can't be Instant Death'd due to hight T and Eternal Warrior. I'm really talking about Splinter fire here, and probably more specifically Splinter Cannons from Venoms. On average, each Venom will cause him to make 4 saves. Fire 6 Venoms at him and that's (on average) 24 saves, 4 fails and one dead Chapter Master.

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 10:48

I'll just have to pull some extra Venoms out my back pocket then.
I will focus more shots on him, from the 4 Venoms I have and Kabalites in Raiders, instead of other "soft targets".
I suppose I knew that would turn out to be the answer, but I am worried that a 250 point character requires the better part of 600 points to put him down.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 10:54

You can just tie him up with wyches.

600 on a 250 is a good thing generally for us.
They just have to be right 250.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 11:03

@Azdrubael wrote:
You can just tie him up with wyches.

Problem with that is that they will never, ever damage him and he only needs to kill one to force a morale check which they will frequently fail. Unless you have a way of making them Fearless I don't see them lasting more than a couple of assault phases.


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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 11:04

Ravager with dissies might also work.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 11:09

@Zenotaph wrote:
Ravager with dissies might also work.

Even less likely than Darklight as you're only wounding on 4+, although granted you will have more shots. Each Dissie Ravager should inflict one unsaved wound so you're looking at 4 of them to kill him off in one turn.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 11:57

It's not like I only shoot with the ravager. Splinterfire is coming, too.

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 12:16

Thanks for the advice and opinions. As I said, I was pretty sure the answer would be to pump him full of Splinters(a kind of ridiculous amount really) and if you can manage it, Dark Light.
My concern with it would be I'm already ignoring his infantry to fire splinters at him, and if I ignore his vehicles for a turn to use Dark Light, I think I'm just digging myself a shallow grave.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know of a CC unit they believe would be able to handle this unit?

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 12:32

Wraithblades with axe and shield, maybe? Archon with huskblade and all the works?
Beastpack might work, but I think, the best way to deal with him, is from far away.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 12:34

Harlequins under invisibility, doom and prescience.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 12:48

Too bad, we don't have Vindicare Assassins...

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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 13:07

Wraithblades have 1 attack base, and will probably not last. They're still being wounded on 2's and relying on a 4++.

Even vindicare isn't as useful as you'd think. The ability he has to strip wargear saves would be retarded by the number of unsaved wounds he' d have to do. "Shield Breaker" would 1st have eliminate the Shield Eternal with its 3++, then the Iron Halo with its 4++. Then you just need strength 10 to instagib.

I like the harlequins, but that's a lot of Warp Charge.

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Braden Campbell
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 13:29

Snipe him with hexrifles?

It's unorthodox, yes.... but would be fittingly hilarious.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 13:38

@flakmonkey wrote:
Even vindicare isn't as useful as you'd think.

But the idea seems good. All his high prized gear shot away...

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 13:56

@flakmonkey wrote:
Even vindicare isn't as useful as you'd think. The ability he has to strip wargear saves would be retarded by the number of unsaved wounds he' d have to do. "Shield Breaker" would 1st have eliminate the Shield Eternal with its 3++, then the Iron Halo with its 4++.

Actually it's just one Shield-Breaker shot to get rid of all invulnerables granted by wargear (which is all of them in this case). Then a couple of turbo-penetrators and he's dead.

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 15:04

Remember that the Gorgon's Chain gets worse the fewer wounds it has left. Loses the FNP buff first, then EW, then the 3++ becomes a 4++. Once you get the first wound, he becomes easier to kill.

Basically, you want to try and take two wounds off in a turn, as he can only ever regain 1 due to It Will Not Die; this keeps him off 5+ Feel no Pain. We do a darn sight better than most armies do against him because we get round that T5 barrier that makes him hard to wound in the first place.

In combat, Grots can tie him up for a bit as he isn't insta-killing them, but that lets him hide in combat.

If you really want comedy value, a shattershard has a 1 in 6 shot of just getting rid of the bugger outright and there's nothing he can do about it...

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 15:23

Nobody thought about blood brides? 9 BB with 3 S&I and a siren with a poison weapon, so that's - 3 attacks. So there should be only one attack left. Add an archon with a clone field and poke him to death, as all his attacks are gone....

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 17:22

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
Nobody thought about blood brides? 9 BB with 3 S&I and a siren with a poison weapon, so that's - 3 attacks. So there should be only one attack left. Add an archon with a clone field and poke him to death, as all his attacks are gone....
Does that work in a duel? Would be great, if it does.

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 17:49

Have to go with the Count here. The only way to kill a character like that is through sheer weight of fire. I usually just ignore characters like that.

His high toughness and 3++ save makes lances and dissies kind of worthless.

Nothing is going to go toe-to-toe in our codex against something that can't be instant deathed T5 S8 and probably 6 attacks with a 3++ save. An archon could if he could somehow get eternal warrior, but without it he's just going to get squashed the moment he rolls a 1. Now if you want to tie him up I will advocate wyches, they have a really good invulnerable save, and if you're lucky you could keep him wrapped up for a turn or two. It probably won't work but they're probably the best CC choice. Anything else is simply going to die unless you pull some psychic shenanigans.


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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 18:35

Didn't know you could take relics from both codex space marines and the iron hands supplement (shield eternal and gorgon chain). That's interesting.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 18:55

@Mushkilla wrote:
Didn't know you could take relics from both codex space marines and the iron hands supplement (shield eternal and gorgon chain). That's interesting.

Good point and it seems that in fact they can only have Clan Raukaan Relics, not CSM.

Quote :
Any character in your Clan Raukaan detachment that can select Chapter Relics cannot select
from those listed in Codex: Space Marines, but can instead select from the Gifts of the
Gorgon at the points cost shown.

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PostSubject: Re: The Death of a Space Marine Hero   The Death of a Space Marine Hero I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 19:15

General consensus is that Chain is better than Shield anyway. My reading of the OP is that said opponent started out with Shield Eternal, and switched to Gorgon's Chain when Clan Raukaan was released.

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