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 Discussion - Orbital Raid

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Panic_Puppet
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 00:06

I stick him with warriors instead of trueborn, though I suppose it depends how you plan on running the trueborn.

Mathematically, 9 shardcarbine-trueborn in a raider will only score 4 more wounds than 9 warriors with splinter racks (assuming optimal range for the warriors), but for 50-something additional points. The fact that the warriors have Objective Secured and, by extension, the Raider, means that I'd take the warriors over the trueborn and save my 50-odd points.

I also like keeping him in with the warriors as he adds a nasty element of combat punch; and also a cheeky blaster, as with the new firing rules you can declare splinter rifles first and hopefully evaporate a unit, before making a character take the blast pistol hit.

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Jimsolo
Dracon
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 01:09

@Laughingcarp wrote:
As for the orbital raid plan;
From those of you with experience running Sliscus, how do you usually play him? Keep him with Kabbies/Splinterborn? Push him up in CC, with wyches or Incubi? Chase flyers to Snapfire blast pistols and hit frequently?

Tabling the Stormsurge issue for the moment, I have been running Sliscus since I started.

I started out fielding him with a unit of warriors, and then having him bail out and join an assault unit (Wyches at first since that was all I had, and moving on up to Grotesques or Incubi as I've gone on.)

Sliscus is one of those interesting conundrums like Lysander was in 5th ed. If you field Sliscus in a list with Kabbies/Trueborn, it hampers his assault capacity (which he's clearly built for) and if you field him without them, you lose out on the 3+ poison buff. Sigh.

Recently, I've begun trying to mitigate the loss of the 3+ poison buff by fielding him in a Cult army. I bring Baron for Hellions, some haywyches, and some Reavers. (Try to make the most out of that drug re-roll!) This isn't, by any stretch, a perfected technique, but it's something I've been fiddling with so far. It's definitely got promise to it (although I have yet to win a game with this or any list in 7th edition).
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Mushkilla
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Mushkilla

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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 08:34

@Jimsolo wrote:
If you field Sliscus in a list with Kabbies/Trueborn, it hampers his assault capacity (which he's clearly built for) and if you field him without them, you lose out on the 3+ poison buff.  Sigh.

The thing is he isn't even that good in assault he's a stunted archon at best, an expensive one at that.

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 09:43

Once you factor in the cost of the shadowfield, ghostplate armour, the combat drugs, and the blast pistol on top of the base stats, you're only looking at ~30 points to get the extra dice and choose for combat drugs, the poison buff to warriors, the better deep-strike ability on raiders/ravagers/venoms, and buffed venom blades.

I'm personally using him for the buffs he gives to the rest of the army, rather than his own personal abilities.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 09:54

Retro jets are 5 points per vehicle so that's the extra 30 points in most lists plus a bit extra. And Sliscus does it better than retros anyway!

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 12:59

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Once you factor in the cost of the shadowfield, ghostplate armour, the combat drugs, and the blast pistol on top of the base stats, you're only looking at ~30 points to get

What cost did you put on -1WS -1BS -1I -1A -1W and -1LD? Just saying he's a gimped archon with utility value.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 18:50

His weapon is better then any AP3 weapon of Archon. Sure Archon would rock with same weapons, but he doesnt have them.

You cant normally expect to defeat Daemon Prince with an Archon. Sliscus - yes, he can. He might screw, but he might finish him quickly.

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Aroban
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 20:30

I also like Sliscus and build my army around him because he is so versatile himself and also adds versatility to the army.

I usually run him starting with a unit of warriors (as from my understanding you have to, or alternatively with trueborn) and then let him join my groesques unit, so the warriors keep the 3+. But thats depending on the linup of my enemy. I could also let him deepstrike with the warrior unit.

His two big shortcomings are lack of LD and point costs thats true. But then his individual strength and the strategic (deepstrike + versatility) bonuses as well as the combat drug bonus makes him worth taking.

I think bottom line is to utilize him best you need to have a Dark Eldar only army with (some) Wych-type units and at least 1500 pts in a semi-competetive army.

Thats where I see him best and where I like to play.

EDIT: I really miss the reroll for sorrounding models in a challenge rule from 6th edition, that way I could use him as a MC hunter with 2++ rerollable and his special weapons
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Jimsolo
Dracon
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 02 2014, 22:49

Unlike some buffers, like Calgar and whatnot, the buffs provided by Sliscus apply whether or not he lives or dies. I wholeheartedly agree--take him for the combat buffs! But once he's ON the table, it's better to do SOMETHING with him than just have him cower in a transport.

To that end, he has the 2+ invulnerable save to his credit, as well as one of the best weapons in the codex. Not only does it give a 2+ poison, but penetrates armor 40% of the time, and isn't vulnerable to Disarming Strike.
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MFive
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 04 2014, 03:43

@Mushkilla wrote:
No things have changed in 7th, deepstriking vehicles count as moving at combat speed, so the passengers can now fire at full BS without disembarking. Very Happy

:O this changes everything! thanks and sorry for slow reply, homework has been crazy
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solar shock
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 04 2014, 08:04

Hey guys,

loving the discussion so far! I've been building a Eldar/DE list for sometime now that is centred around orbital raid.

In terms of interesting ideas, I dont have the new BRB so am not 100% of the legality but what do you guys make of this? (Taken from another topic):

"The Deployment rules for Dedicated Transports state that a Dedicated Transport can only be deployed with the unit that bought it. It doesnt however say that you can keep the vehicle in reserve and stick another unit in it. This one might need an FAQ or just a general conversation however the theory is sound. Stick Wraithguard with D-Scythes in a Raider (or a Tantalus if you have Forgeworld models, as these are not dedicated transports you can do what you like!), add Retrofire Jets, drop them in Turn 2 and make your opponent cry (just hope you don't scatter considering how close you need to be to fire them!). You can disembark the turn they arrive and if you take Iyanden you can Battle Focus them (make sure you have a Spiritseer!). This could be rather scary...!"

Thinking sliscus DS'ing along side wraithguard, some kab raiders and maybe some banshees in venoms? DS them a little further back, allowing them to make use of the 24" SCannon range, then next turn move in, plastering more shots into units as the banshees assult out of the vehicle! As you can now join characters too, perhaps add lelith to the banshees?

Let me know what you think :)my first time with eldar and dark eldar, so still very fresh, but i absolutely love the idea of DSing in gunboats, even more so if I can have say dire avengers in venoms.

EDIT: Also! Can I now use a WWP to pour out eldar all over the battlefield? Very Happy can my wraithguard pour out of the webway laying waste to everything that stands in there way? please?!
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Reaverchamp
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 21 2014, 03:47

The orbital raid is here in a big way. I had this same thought when I sat down with the 7th edition rules and created a list with 3 deep striking warrior Raiders with splinter racks, some deep striking blasterborn in a Venom, and some reavers and Ravagers on the ground. I played a game against a semi-mech Tau army to test it, and Turn 2 all of my reserves came in and I obliterated half of his army the instant I hit the table, leaving not even enough significant threats left to retaliate. It was awesome. I survived first turn by using LOS blocking as well as Jink, which is worth it's weight in gold. Reavers are awesome with scoring, far moves, bladevane attacks, and awesome jink make them great bullet sponges first turn, so it's not nearly as concerning for getting tabled first turn while you wait for reserves come in. So yes, the orbital raid is here in a big way.
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The Red King
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 21 2014, 19:40

So I've thrown together a list and I'm torn.

I'm bringing two allied Eldar detachments; one a laughing autarch for a hard to kill bonus to my reserves (much needed) and then the choice; Illic Nightspear and 2 five man squads of rangers upped to pathfinders (shrouded and all shots precision).

Now I could drop the snipers for a wraithknight which is both durable and dangerous, but the snipers give me 11 more shrouded bodies to weather the tabling and the ability to pick out all kinds of special weapons with 10 precise rending shots. Oh and they are super scoring.

What do you guys think? I can post my full list if wanted.

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 23 2014, 03:51

@solar shock wrote:
Hey guys,
Thinking sliscus DS'ing along side wraithguard, some kab raiders and maybe some banshees in venoms? DS them a little further back, allowing them to make use of the 24" SCannon range, then next turn move in, plastering more shots into units as the banshees assult out of the vehicle! As you can now join characters too, perhaps add lelith to the banshees?

As I understand the rule, Eldar units cannot start the game embarked on a raider as it is a DEDICATED transport. This means they cannot be deployed as reserve (and cannot deepstrike, of course). Though, we can embark Eldars to our dedicated transports in the first turn (not as reserve) - I love to order my wraithguards to shoot from a raider in this way pirat 



@solar shock wrote:
Hey guys,
EDIT: Also! Can I now use a WWP to pour out eldar all over the battlefield? Very Happy can my wraithguard pour out of the webway laying waste to everything that stands in there way? please?!

It works, as long as our new Codex and/or Errata restrict it. Still, I prefer the move-and-shoot with raiders.

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion - Orbital Raid   Discussion - Orbital Raid - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 23 2014, 03:56

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Laughingcarp wrote:
From those of you with experience running Sliscus, how do you usually play him? Keep him with Kabbies/Splinterborn? Push him up in CC, with wyches or Incubi? Chase flyers to Snapfire blast pistols and hit frequently?

Deploy with Trueborn to get the 3+ poison but shift into a unit of Wyches asap to benefit from his combat ability.

Strongly agree with Adhemar, although I shift the Duke into Incubi.

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