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 About Crime in Commorragh

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Nomad
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PostSubject: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 00:45

It's mentioned somewhere, and I can't quite pull it out of memory... But Crime exists in Commorragh. Hellions tend to be criminals in the fluff. So if I am recalling this right (and not just seeing it in conversations on random sites talking about Dark Eldar fluff) that implies something very interesting and worth while to discuss.

There are laws in Commorragh? I could imagine in some warped sense of the idea. Those in power often wish to impose their rule on others. So, is there law in Commorragh? What kind of laws would it have? Who would even enforce these laws? Or obey them for that matter?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 01:10

There are probably all sorts of laws but nobody cares unless you're stupid enough to get caught. Basically, no enforcement or prevention - just punishment.

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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 01:53

I think the whole of the law is "Do what Vect says".
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 03:27

@Squidmaster wrote:
I think the whole of the law is "Do what Vect says".

Unless you are good enough to overthrow him, that is. Twisted Evil 


The fluff also tells, one crime for real is beeing psyker, or use them.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 07:12

The use of psychic powers is one of the "few things" forbidden in the Dark City.

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Dethdispenser
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 09:54

I would say that since each Kabal is it's own "nation", each area has it's own sets of laws. Hellions belong to no nation, so hence is considered the underworld for the Dark City. A lowly Dark Eldar citizen would never willingly attack a squad of Dark Eldar Warriors traveling along the streets, but hellions may. Granted the entire system is anarchy tripping on speed.

Punishments can be a swift death, given to a haemonculi (Grotesques come from Dark Eldar too), given to the slave district to make weapons or food (a punishment some Dark Eldar may seem worse then death), become a pet to an archon and much much worse.

Golden rule in Dark Eldar society is don't get caught, as Count Adhemar pointed out.

The psycher forbidden is something that Vect holds over all Archons and denizens of the Dark City. You can take a lesson of how serious this is by Baron Sathonyx fluff.
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 14:22

There are no strict laws but what each kabal/Vect put in place. Commorragh is the ultimate libertarian paradise/hellhole. Nearly anything goes, there are no moral qualms about anything, the only real problem is if who you piss off by doing whatever you're doing.

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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 16:18

Anarcho Feudalistic Oligarchy.

Where the DE are the ruling class. Its a self supporting law structure and There are truly only a couple people at the top?

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeFri May 02 2014, 00:44

@Dethdispenser wrote:
The psycher forbidden is something that Vect holds over all Archons and denizens of the Dark City. You can take a lesson of how serious this is by Baron Sathonyx fluff.

But the baron didn't flee from Vect. He fled from his own Archon, named Cythrax...

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Nomad
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeFri May 02 2014, 03:22

Very interesting input. I didn't realize that the Kabals where basically their own independent nations, in all essential regards. It's a respect I need to look at for my fluff... Hrm.

Still it's a very interesting angle. Very.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeFri May 02 2014, 03:52

Hehe, what do you expect from an Archon?  Twisted Evil 

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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeSat May 03 2014, 01:35

Not sure, as much as I like the fluff I'm also still trying to wrap my mind around it. lol
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeSat May 03 2014, 01:52

Commoragh society is Kabal meritocracy. Hence laws are defined by Archons of each territory.

 You didnt knew the rules? Well, bad for you.
 You knew the rules, but didnt get caught breaking them? Well - smart for you.
 You knew the rules, didnt get caught, but was anyway scaped as a one who might breaked rules? Stupid for you, to not show your value enough for your Archon.

Hellions despise Kabals, which means they dont bow to Archons rules, which means they are criminals. They reject society form.

Commoragh is a place of poltics. And politics have no rules, only agendas.
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeFri May 09 2014, 04:19

Moving this to Background as it is very much a fluff discussion.

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Khain mor
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeSun May 11 2014, 16:11

There is actually one crime that's punished in Commorragh: anything to do with deamons and deamon worshipping.

You've got the 13 pillars of vegeance that guide everyone slightly, but the whole deamon thing is the only major offence that gets you annihilated.

Otherwise the so called acts that we refer to as "crimes" on earth, are just normal in Commorragh.

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeSun May 18 2014, 08:55

Personally, I do believe there are crimes in Commorragh, and that yes, stuff like theft and murder technically are crimes, with the Kabalite Warriors of the Kabal acting as enforcers within the domains of each Kabal. Of course, getting away with the crime is the test, and it's more a punishment for getting caught, rather than for the act itself. I mean, on one hand, you can't have everyone just go around killing your warriors, but on the other hand, if a Kabalite Warrior manages to "earn" his promotion after the previous Sybarite mysteriously goes missing, then obviously he's a more fit leader.

Still, if you get caught trying to steal the raider of another squad, you'd better believe you'll be punished, and if you try to steal the raider of the Archon... let's just say you'll be having a private meeting, and not in a good way.

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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeTue May 20 2014, 07:04

I remember reading about the laws in The eternal city in one of Andy Chambers' books. I think it was Path of the renegade. There was, as I remember, only three real laws, of wich I remember one: If someone ever shows sing of weakness, it is ones' duty to punish that one.The laws were, of course, written by the the awesome ruler of Commorragh Asdrubael himself. I also expect there to be one saying something like: Do as the Overlord commands, and try not to overthrow him.

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeTue May 20 2014, 07:18

As many people have stated, I think crime would be down to the individual Kabal. I don't thik they'd have thae same crimes as us, though. Murdering another person's slave, for example, would be vandalism as it will cost to get it repaired.

I think if you look at everything as a form of ownership then you get a better insight into e DE mind. Also, I think you'd be able to put them into two distinct categories of 'personal crimes' and 'Kabalite crimes'.

Personal could b anything from stealing from somebody to murdering their whole family. The Kabals wouldn't interfere with such petty affairs as if you can't defend your own property or get vengeance yourself then you're not really fulfilling the merticratic nature of the DE.

Kabalite, however, would be conspiring to bring a downfall for the Kabal or its property. These crimes would be things that the Kabalites would actually bother dealing with, whether it's a single squad of Warriors going to exact swift vengeance for the destruction of their Raider by lowly gangs or whether the full force of the Kabal is brought to quell upstart peasants.

They could overlap, too. A squad of Kabalites has offended another Squad of Kabalites, and so the latter disposes of the former in an untimely and very bloody fashion. This might not be something for an Archon to bother with and much of the Kabal might find it funny, but it's one group showing superiority over the other through vengeance.

I think crime and punishment would be very subjective. At the end of the day all that matters are the thirteen foundations of vengeace. What I've written here is how my own Kabal deals with its people, leaving them to sort out their own issues whilst it deals with anything major. DE rely very much off of survival of the fittest, after all.

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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 21:47

Dark eldar have no concept of "crime" the only rules regarding conduct is what you can do without incurring the wrath of those above you and even if you do that if you are strong enough to resist said wrath you have no fear of repercussions. For instance if you are an ambitious upstart an archon might eliminate you while you are weak so you don't become a threat in the future in this case the only crime you committed is that you were perceived as a threat. Asdrubael Vect for instance has no fear of any repercussions as he can crush anyone that tries to punish him for his "crimes"
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a1elbow
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 09 2015, 20:05

I think GW fluff for both Dark Eldar and Dark Elves is too much hyperbole. Obviously, it isn't practical that these two factions spend all day and night robbing and murdering each other. I remember reading some fluff in one of the last couple Dark Elf books that left me wondering how there is anyone there and a lot of the Dark Eldar fluff isn't that different.

With that as my opening, I have to assume that there is a lot of day-to-day normalcy amongst Dark Eldar, but in a very dark way. Imagine the "normalcy" that would persist in a society based on slave labor and featuring regular display of violence as entertainment. To put a very serious and very dark turn on the concept (but without wanting to demean the reality of what happened) I'd liken the lives and attitudes of many in Dark Eldar society to somewhere in the vein of being Germans in and around concentration camps or something similar.

In terms of laws, all rulers have laws. I think the concept of lawlessness is absurd. But as others have said, the idea is that people are still trying to get away with it. No matter how corrupt the rulers though, they still have to respond to requests made by their subjects. Archons probably hold court and make decisions based on evidence. Probably a lot are cruel and violent, but at the same time there are probably DE lords who try and keep some peace among their subjects and have a more standard concept of laws than "don't get caught...or die!"

Dark Eldar go out, they work (possibly as overseers or merchants or skilled laborers), they go home and rest. Once or twice a week they go out and watch the Wyches duel. I doubt every DE is roaming the streets at night, stealing from their neighbors and stabbing people. Sometimes they get written like this, but I don't see that being a realistic portrayal of any sustainable society.

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: About Crime in Commorragh   About Crime in Commorragh I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 10 2015, 14:45

It isn't really a question of crime. The notion of crime in a society that thrives on suffering is empty.

It's about whether the guy with the advantage over you doesn't like what you just did. If he doesn't, he'll punish you for it unless someone above him would punish him in turn for doing so and he doesn't think he can get away with it.

And so on, until you reach Vect who will slap you. Vect might label certain things 'crimes' in an ironic manner, but he and everyone else knows that all he really means is 'stuff I don't want you doing because it inconveniences me and I will crush you for doing it.'

The reason using psychic powers or interacting with the warp in any other way is punishable by all is that everyone but the desperate fool who tried it is fully aware of how totally stupid it is to do so and will mash said berk on sight for potentially causing a daemonic incursion.

It's like Scourges. You don't kill a Scourge because they're the messengers of the dark city, and if you kill one everyone else who runs on information (i.e any Dark Eldar with any amount of influence that has managed to survive) is going to kill you in the face for your insolence.

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