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 Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.

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Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael

Posts : 1853
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon May 12 2014, 20:44

You would need to keep her alive for one turn, and would need to Outflank at the right side of the board. Too many conditions i think for maybe assauting some backfield unit.

Haemy idea is nice thou, linebreaker and some power with him. Maybe liqufier or Dark Gate. Delivery system for terrible terrible damage.

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Wych
Expletive Deleted

Posts : 581
Join date : 2013-07-31

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon May 12 2014, 21:02

@seggygetshyphy wrote:
Here's my opinion on the Succubus, I never take her.  Here's why, if you decide to take the Succubus as your warlord, you are giving your opponent Slay the Warlord.  She has no abilities outside of Close Combat and outside of CC, she is squishier.  Simply, she will get shot to death in every game.  She might manage to kill a squad, but she will die immediately after, and she can't go toe to toe with the more badass Independent Characters in the game.  You (maybe) kill a squad, but you lose a kill point.

She has potential in the secondary HQ slot, but usually I'm filling that up with Haemonculi to get all those fancy weapons and wargear.  Wyches work great with Haemonculi because liquifier guns give them a flamer, and altered physique give them FNP.  When the dice hook you up with pain token combat drugs, your wych squad has FNP and Furious Charge before you even start moving.

I love the Succubus, but she just has no place in my army currently.  When you are dealing with Kill Points for Slay the Warlord, I will always go with survivability, and an Archon with 2++ that can be stuck in a group of ranged weapons and be effective as opposed to a 6+(4++ in CC) that is only effective in CC, Archon will always come out on top.

If Succubus could take Shadow Field, she would be my #1 choice every time.

In my games all those points basically apply to the archon as well. Yes, a shadowfield makes him more survivable, yes, a huskblade allows him to hunt other HQs (so long as they don't have eternal warrior) but those two pieces of wargear cost AS MUCH as a naked succubus. Doubles the price of your archon, and you're not even done with the other upgrades yet, like a soul trap, or combat drugs or phantasm grenade launcher. At that point I've paid 110 points on upgrades for a unit that will die on a roll of one to a S6 hit. At that point I can't justify spending a ravager or a blasterborn squad worth of points, on a unit that MIGHT be more effective than the succubus in assault. If you throw her at basic infantry she will melt face. If you throw her at ghazghkull thraka then she'll die horribly, but then so will your archon. Remember the old adage. Chop the shooty ones and shoot the choppy ones.

Though I will agree, if you're not assaulting with your HQ a hamie is what it's all about.

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seggygetshyphy
Slave
seggygetshyphy

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 07:10

@Expletive Deleted wrote:


In my games all those points basically apply to the archon as well. Yes, a shadowfield makes him more survivable, yes, a huskblade allows him to hunt other HQs (so long as they don't have eternal warrior) but those two pieces of wargear cost AS MUCH as a naked succubus.

I usually never kit him out like that. My Archon gets Shadowfield Combat Drugs Venom Blade. That's it. Huskblade is too expensive and it always seems to let me down. I rely on my Sybarite for the PGL (it's 5 points cheaper on him). Putting my Archon in CC is usually always a last resort. I take him to survive, so I put him in a blob of twenty Kabalites in the back field holding an objective. Sometimes I'll even stick a Haemonculus in there to give them FNP for good measure. I guess this method could be used with Wyches, but a blob of 5+ armor Kabalites camping in cover with FNP will always outlive a blob of 6+ Wyches (who don't have fleet anymore because of the Haemonculus) with FNP running up the middle.

All in all, My Kabalite blob with Haemonculus w/liquifier and Archon comes in between 400 and 430 points and survives the whole game even when getting hammered by Tau and Eldar shooting.

Let's take the Succubus and put her in a full squad of Wyches which is only 15 upgrade the Hekatrix with Phantasm Grenade Launcher (because it's a must IMO), give them both Venom Blades because DE strength is atrocious. Stripped down like this, you are still sitting at 245 points that are just asking to be shot to death. Give them a Haemonculus w/Liquifier to make them a little more survivable with FNP, and your over 300, and that's without Haywire grenades or Wych weapons and at the loss of Fleet because Haemi trips when he runs. Granted, it's 100 points less, but at the loss of survivability.

When I've taken Succubus, I always take her in a Deep Striking Venom with dual splinter cannons. Sometimes with Bloodbrides, sometimes with Wracks (usually Wracks w/Liquifier and Haemi w/Liquifier, so starting with FNP and Furious Charge and sometimes starting the game Fearless). Last time I played this, it was against Tau. I Deep Struck her with the Flesh Carnival and another Venom with 5 Haywire Wyches into the back field where my opponent was hiding his Commander. Guess what happened. Even with really good rolls on my part, everything was shot to pieces, and I only managed to take out a crisis and a couple of Fire Warriors.

At least for me, Wyches are only in my list to tarpit, or go vehicle hunting. Mostly the latter because loading 5 Wyches w/Haywire in a dual Splinter Cannon Venom is crazy fun when you are staring down a wall of Armor.
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the_dukes_scion
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 08:18

has anyone considered using two or three haemys as a HQ choice, and sharing out the pain tokens from that? It gets awfully expensive for the pain tokens, but could be a solution to split the tokens up. 3 Haemys is 150, 3 pain tokens, Succubus with venom blade is 70, chuck in some wyches in a raider to max cap, disembark the Haemys and leave a token with them, join them up with some kabalites camping somewhere, take off with the rest (or start on the board, split them, whatever, thinking on the fly) then you have two tokens for your wyches and succubus?

Am I wrong? expensive perhaps but saves a bit of hassle trying to jag some pain tokens. I'm guessing, 60 points for wyches, 60 point raider, hmmm, actually that is a lot!!!

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Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 12:54

@seggygetshyphy wrote:

Let's take the Succubus and put her in a full squad of Wyches which is only 15 upgrade the Hekatrix with Phantasm Grenade Launcher (because it's a must IMO), give them both Venom Blades because DE strength is atrocious.

And this is why I run my succubus with grotesques and not wyches. It takes a lot of firepower to kill grotesques, and with an aberration you have a model that can accept challenges against anything with a strength higher than 5. You no longer need a shadowfield because you have literally given your HQ meat shields. This set up performs fantastically in every game I've played and frankly scares the piss out of any opponent who has faced it before. I don't mind giving up a kill point to be honest, if my opponent spends two turns trying to deal with something I have aethersailed into his backfield.

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seggygetshyphy
Slave
seggygetshyphy

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 17:13

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
And this is why I run my succubus with grotesques and not wyches.

Oooh, I like that. I'll have to give it a try sometime. I still don't like the loss of Fleet, but 2+ look out, sir onto a T5 W3 model will definitely keep her alive longer.

The idea of a Raider full of Grotesques with a Succubus flying across the battlefield makes me think of frat guys in a party boat on vacation. Nothing good can come of this. LOL
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Dethdispenser
Kabalite Warrior
Dethdispenser

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 17:46

Meat shield Grotesques are awesome. Currently I am running the Tantalus with 6 Grots and Lady Malys. It is a whole lot of fun heh Smile
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Expletive Deleted
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 18:50

Can you put enhanced aethersails on a tantalus? I don't mind the loss of fleet, when my raider can move 34"-44" on the first turn. If you roll lucky on the drug chart you can start with furious charge, and at that point 15 T5 wounds with 23 attacks on the charge that will wound on a 2+ is something your opponent is going to put all his shots into if it get's into his backfield.

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Anterzhul
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 19:03

Tantalus comes stock with aethersails according to IA Apoc 2nd edition, and can take all vehicle upgrades

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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 20:00

@Anterzhul wrote:
Tantalus comes stock with aethersails according to IA Apoc 2nd edition, and can take all vehicle upgrades

Isn`t it a dedicated transport only for Court??

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Dragontree
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 20:05

@Devilogical wrote:
@Anterzhul wrote:
Tantalus comes stock with aethersails according to IA Apoc 2nd edition, and can take all vehicle upgrades

Isn`t it a dedicated transport only for Court??

That or a heavy support with transport capacity
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MFive
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 20:49

I have been really wanting to get a tantalus for this very reason, and with a model that cool, whats not to love?


Last edited by MFive on Wed May 14 2014, 05:07; edited 1 time in total
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Dethdispenser
Kabalite Warrior
Dethdispenser

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 21:05

Yeah, the court can make a Dedicated transport. Which sucks. But it can be taken as a heavy support - Fast Skimmer - Tank with transport capacity of 16
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Lahcimus
Hellion
Lahcimus

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Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed May 14 2014, 13:05

No, if i remind well its heavy support
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 3 I_icon_minitime

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