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 Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.

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Zenotaph
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 20:57

@Dr. Acon wrote:
Oh crazy,
I'm assuming that is in the main rule book under the special rules section?

Yeah, it is. First thing, I did, when the new rulebook came out, was checking the special rules.
And since the Dark Eldar are first at using poison, I did a special research. Suspect 

Ok, enough fun for that. This conversation is starting to be a competition:
Which weapon is best on what character?

Oh, by the way, if the Agonizer would be AP2, I would pay another 10 points for it.
Don't know why, but I like it. Best used against Necrons, I think...

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MFive
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 21:29

I find that Agonizers work best vs wraith units, their high toughness and 3+ armoud makes them perfect targets  Twisted Evil 
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 22:00

Remember the agonizer isn't a poisoned weapon, it just wounds on a fixed 4+. So no rerolls even on T3, MFive.

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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 22:57

I just want to model all my units with agonizers. they look so cool.

And ex Running the Venom blade and blast pistol looks like its probably the best option then. You get your ap 2 AND 2+ poison with 7A? on the charge? at 2+ and hope that your blast pistol took someone out in the shooting? At that point its also a threat to vehicles. A 90pt Succubus taking out a Land Raider is something I hope to see one day. And then shredding the contents.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 29 2014, 23:15

@Its_Rumble wrote:
A 90pt Succubus taking out a Land Raider is something I hope to see one day. And then shredding the contents.
That's the dream, man Very Happy 

@Expletive, sadly the Blast Pistol only has 6" range  Sad

But I'm starting to agree with you folks regarding VB over Agonizer. What about power weapons though? The Power Lance has been brought up, but I hardly trust those since it REQUIRES we get the charge. I've started running Power Swords or Axes on my Haemonculi, and they work wonders.
Anyone with experience on the table have a say?

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Expletive Deleted
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 30 2014, 02:02

I've run a power lance on my succubus for the longest now. I'll say getting the charge isn't the hard part, you have a really fast boat, a 12" disembark into a 2-12" charge with fleet, and aethersails. Where the power lance fails me, is it's only good that first turn. After that it's pretty much garbage. At this point I'd probably only take a lance on something with hit and run. Like a helliarch or a harlequin troupe master.

And blast pistols only have a 6" range? Cripes I knew they were bad, i didn't know they were that bad.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 30 2014, 07:56

Yessir, right in the back of the codex and the 40K manual. 6" is all. It's pretty brutal; 15pts for something even worse than a plasma pistol.
I agree on having a power lance on something with Hit & Run, but yeah on anything else I can't see it.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 08 2014, 21:10

Hm, how a succubus would perform with a venom-, and a powerweapon? Could be good, when getting +S1 with drugs.
Cheaper than with agonizer. Blastpistol might be useful. When I'm correct, a succubus could reroll hits of 1.
Second shot is a 6+, I think. Archons are better at shooting, 5+ isn't bad, when you miss your first shot...
Jup, 6" is pretty low, but S8, AP2 is usefull, sometimes.

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 08 2014, 22:34

I've never had any success the few times I've run a succubus, she just keeps dying on me. Not a huge problem with killiness, but taking the hits is a HUGE problem. How do people get around that?

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MFive
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 08 2014, 22:49

Look Out Sir! And grots
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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 08 2014, 23:08

Doesn't help if something lives long enough to slap her back, or if the grots die... Grots also aren't fleet, which can be a problem for getting into combat. That said, though I often invest in shadowfields, I don't always get the opportunity to use them - maybe I should try out a Succubus again for some points-shaving.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 09 2014, 08:21

@MFive wrote:
Look Out Sir! And grots

Didn't a succubus get a 4++ in CC? Ranged fire can be minimized with a raider.

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Aroban
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 09 2014, 19:33

if you are considering a blastpistol for a succu, you could also think about taking an Archon as he can take a blaster for the exact same 15 points. I am not sure if he loses the extra attack for having two cc weapons then. But still 18" S8 AP2 with BS7 and you can get the shadow field and LD10, just awesome

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 09 2014, 19:41

He will loose the extra attack because a blaster is an assault weapon.
The splinter-, or blastpistol gives an extra attack for either the venom-, or the powerweapon.
Stop that. You need to exchange your handweapon and/or splinterpistol, so you can't have a venomblade,
a powerweapon and a pistol... I took a look in our Codex.

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DiputsLasarach
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat May 10 2014, 01:51

@Aroban wrote:
if you are considering a blastpistol for a succu, you could also think about taking an Archon as he can take a blaster for the exact same 15 points. I am not sure if he loses the extra attack for having two cc weapons then. But still 18" S8 AP2 with BS7 and you can get the shadow field and LD10, just awesome  

  While I think you'd lose out on the extra attack if you just had a blaster on the archon, one thing you can do is 'take' a djin blade without swapping it for your starting gear. So you can have the option for ap3, a venom blade, and a blaster.... A bit expensive by that point, but you'll be ready for anything!

(Finding a haemonculus to graft enough arms to make use of all your wargear is another problem altogether.)
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat May 10 2014, 19:14

@MFive wrote:
With poison weapons in CC, if your strength is equal or greater than or equel to the victims toughness then You can re roll to wound, and because the venom blade is poisoned 2+ you get to reroll the ones

Yeah this is an important rule which Dark Eldar often forget because all the splinters count as Strength 1 ^^
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat May 10 2014, 19:25

@Mngwa wrote:
Yeah this is an important rule which Dark Eldar often forget because all the splinters count as Strength 1 ^^

Really? Since we are armored with tissues, special rules is all we got. Can't tell, how often I used a special to turn the game.

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 11 2014, 03:38

Where did you get the S1 thing for our splinter weapons?

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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 11 2014, 08:05

@Massaen wrote:
Where did you get the S1 thing for our splinter weapons?

At the poisoned USR-page. I think it mentioned it somewhere in the end that they count as S1.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 11 2014, 21:49

@Aroban wrote:
Because the Archon is 20 points more expensive, i would have to change the 6 Blasters on the two Reaver squads for 6 Heat Lances, so its kind of complicated for me...

Sorry, but I just read this again. You got 6 blasters, which means, you got 2 squads of each 9 reavers.
I just say: Change all your blasters to heatlances. Use the extra points at will. 18 pnts just to spend...
Nothing complicated about it. It is worth it, believe me...

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MFive
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 12 2014, 08:12

@Mngwa wrote:
Yeah this is an important rule which Dark Eldar often forget because all the splinters count as Strength 1 ^^

yea, which means they might do something against a AV7 building or vehicle that your necron scarab allies have attacked but not killed.

for rules sake though, the re-rolls only effect shooting, which is kinda a bummer imo, would have loved to reroll to wound against a enfeebled squad of ork grots
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 12 2014, 09:19

@MFive wrote:
@Mngwa wrote:
Yeah this is an important rule which Dark Eldar often forget because all the splinters count as Strength 1 ^^

yea, which means they might do something against a AV7 building or vehicle that your necron scarab allies have attacked but not killed.

Doesn't work against vehicles (and therefore buildings, which generally follow vehicle rules). From page 25 of codex (amended as per FAQ):

Quote :
Poisoned Shooting Weapons.
These weapons cannot damage enemy vehicles

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 12 2014, 11:38

Back to the power lance, I run a large blob of hellions and never leave home without one on the helliarch. Add that to a PGL and he is a 51 point machine that can run for it if the rolls are not favourable. Add a baron and that is awfully good fun. But damn expensive.

I have to agree about the succubus dying to regularly when running with wyches. A couple of autocannons and its lights out for the squad. I love her at low points, but at higher just can't seem to get her to survive for long enough.

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 12 2014, 18:44

Here's my opinion on the Succubus, I never take her. Here's why, if you decide to take the Succubus as your warlord, you are giving your opponent Slay the Warlord. She has no abilities outside of Close Combat and outside of CC, she is squishier. Simply, she will get shot to death in every game. She might manage to kill a squad, but she will die immediately after, and she can't go toe to toe with the more badass Independent Characters in the game. You (maybe) kill a squad, but you lose a kill point.

She has potential in the secondary HQ slot, but usually I'm filling that up with Haemonculi to get all those fancy weapons and wargear. Wyches work great with Haemonculi because liquifier guns give them a flamer, and altered physique give them FNP. When the dice hook you up with pain token combat drugs, your wych squad has FNP and Furious Charge before you even start moving.

I love the Succubus, but she just has no place in my army currently. When you are dealing with Kill Points for Slay the Warlord, I will always go with survivability, and an Archon with 2++ that can be stuck in a group of ranged weapons and be effective as opposed to a 6+(4++ in CC) that is only effective in CC, Archon will always come out on top.

If Succubus could take Shadow Field, she would be my #1 choice every time.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy.   Succubus: The cheapest murder engine that money can buy. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 12 2014, 19:09

Hm, I'm thinking 'bout the other thread. The one with the mandrakes.
Could it be usefull, to outflank with them, including a succubus?
When you get the painmarker out of her drugs, they should be a nasty surprise.
Her cc skills, combined with a lot of S4 attacks can really harm the enemy.
I see devastators fall like flies...

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