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 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance

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Chuckles
Slave
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Join date : 2014-04-08
Location : Coventry, for my sins

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PostSubject: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 08 2014, 09:41

So I recently attended a 2-day tournament here in the UK (Bristol Vanguard's excellent Vanquish event, if you're interested). It was my first time and in many ways I had a blast, but I went 1 from 5, got tabled in every game I lost bar the last one, and generally speaking did not acquit myself terribly well, although I didn't go down without a fight in any game but the third, where the dice and darklight were definitely not with me.

Now, I didn't have a lot of gametime with the dark kin under my belt going in, and had none at all with the particular army list I was bringing. But the main problem was that my list was pretty damn soft. I played nothing but space marines in all 5 games and mostly saw pretty soft lists, so I dread to think what would have happened if I'd faced Taudar.

Anyway, I've gone back to the drawing board a bit and have come back with the following. However, I would appreciate thoughts on the list to see if I've managed to come up with something with a bit more bite to it. The list I took to Vanquish was Archon (husk, SF, drugs, trap, PGL), 4 incubi (klaivex w stone & onslaught) in 2 x splinter venom, 2 x 10 warriors w/ blaster & splinter cannon in raiders with racks, 20 warriors w/ double lance & pgl sybarite, 2 x 6 reavers w double caltrops and double heat lance, 3 beastmasters all w clawed fiends, and a trip dark lance ravager.


The new list I am proposing is:

Malys
Power axe haemy
5 incubi w/ klaivex with onslaught in a night shields & flicker raider
4 x warrior squads with blasters all riding in double splinter night shield venoms
9 reavers with 3 caltrops and 3 heat lances
10 scourges with 4 haywire blasters
A trip disintegrator cannon ravager
Voidraven

The obvious problem is that wave serpents are going to eat me alive if they get first turn. I could reserve two of the venom units but then the ones that are left will get serpent shielded to death. Basically my scoring units selection is very flimsy- but then that seems to be unavoidable with the dark kin, even wracks strike me as pretty easy to drop with ignores cover so prevalent now. My logic therefore was that if I can't guarantee they'll survive then I might as well just go all in on maximising my firepower and vehicle count to make target priority tricky. Night shields venoms parked as far back as they can be and making as much use of LOS blocking terrain as possible might manage to avoid getting taken off with the first volley- if my luck holds.

What do folks think?

4a. Please refrain from double posting. You may "bump" a post every 48hrs if you feel you are not getting responses. Double posts in project logs are acceptable. /Your friendly mod Vas
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Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 08 2014, 12:19

Tournament DE means Venoms, Ravagers and Beasts with Baron. And still they are no match to most powerfull builds. Add in Eldar allies like Fearless jetseer and its getting closer.

Your HQ:s are very expencive and not doing enough in a your list. Heamy gives token to Reavers?
Incubi never work in competitive setting as they are T3 and too killy.
Nothing wrong with warriors in venoms. Do they need blasters? How aout Wyches with hwg?
Reavers dont like high S ignore cover. Guess what Tau and Eldar have a in their lists.
Again T3 and a 4+ models with scourges?
Solo ravagers are not enough as they are very easy to kill.
Compare Voidraven to helldrake and night scythe. Better leave the skies to other races and consentrate on the ground targets.

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New Dark Eldar in Tournaments: Wins: 17 Draws: 2 Losses: 8
ETC 2013 DE/Eldar player (4th)
ETC 2014 Coach (16th)
ETC 2015 Captain, Eldar/DE (10th)
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Chuckles
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 08 2014, 12:42

Sorry about the double post. Seems to have done the trick though Wink

@Vasara wrote:
Tournament DE means Venoms, Ravagers and Beasts with Baron. And still they are no match to most powerfull builds. Add in Eldar allies like Fearless jetseer and its getting closer.

Your HQ:s are very expencive and not doing enough in a your list. Heamy gives token to Reavers?
Incubi never work in competitive setting as they are T3 and too killy.
Nothing wrong with warriors in venoms. Do they need blasters? How aout Wyches with hwg?
Reavers dont like high S ignore cover. Guess what Tau and Eldar have a in their lists.
Again T3 and a 4+ models with scourges?
Solo ravagers are not enough as they are very easy to kill.
Compare Voidraven to helldrake and night scythe. Better leave the skies to other races and consentrate on the ground targets.

Interesting. I would really like to avoid allying in Eldar if I can possibly avoid it, once I do that I might as well just go the whole way and run Eldar full-stop. Wasn't overly impressed by the Ravager when I ran it, 3 dark lances seems nice but whiffed their pen rolls more often than not.

Plan with the haemy was to ride with Malys and the Incubi, Reavers grab a pain token by hitting something with 3D6 Str6 hits (plus whatever I get from the vanes. Incubi and Reavers were my MVPs by quite some distance in the tournament I played in.

I'm not wild about wyches as my charge rolls are invariably no good even with fleet, closing with the enemy usually results in my stuff getting pancaked before doing anything.

Reavers, fair point I guess. They're my favourite DE unit by some distance though.

Scourges were there to up my DL count.

The tournaments I play in tend to penalise duplicated units (this last one wouldn't even allow 3 of the same outside troops), hence the solo ravager. Mine seemed to survive okay but again didn't play Tau or Eldar.

Voidraven as with scourges was there to up my DL count.
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The Shade of Despair
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The Shade of Despair

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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 08 2014, 19:03

Starting with HQ, I wouldn't give the Haemonculi a power axe since they aren't that great in close combat with it or without it. I would instead arm it with a liquefier gun for that potential MEQ armour ignoring goodness if your going up against a lot of MEQ armies, and I just think it's better value over all. Malys is decent overall but personally I prefer other characters or just a archon kited out like you did in the last tournament.

When it comes to elites I would drop the onslaught on the incubi since they are very capable in close combat even without it (just remember that they don't have grenades unless you include a IC with it) and I would remove the night shield on the raider because they are a close combat squads and they want to get close to the enemy which means they will most likely be in range of their guns

The Warrior squad units are fine

The reavers are fine but I sort of doubt the effectiveness of the caltrops, seems like your putting to many eggs in one basket since that unit is already pricey.

I would advise against the scourges or at least divide them in two separate squads, I just find them to fragile for their cost and I would suggest taking another squad of reavers or another ravager/voidraven instead. Lastly I would give the ravagers dark lances instead of disintegrators and unlike Vasara I think that the voidravens are worth their cost. Better to have some defense against fliers then none.
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Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 09 2014, 08:54

I can understand the feeelings about Reavers. they sure are one of the coolest units in th codex. I too would change lances to arena champpion. Thats very expencive unit with LD8. They much better bladevaning than getting close and personal like shooting with 9" range.

_________________
New Dark Eldar in Tournaments: Wins: 17 Draws: 2 Losses: 8
ETC 2013 DE/Eldar player (4th)
ETC 2014 Coach (16th)
ETC 2015 Captain, Eldar/DE (10th)
Painting blog
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Chuckles
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 09 2014, 10:03

Cheers for the comments guys.

The Reavers are pretty expensive it's true, but I find their flexibility very valuable. Sometimes I need high volume strength 6, sometimes I need a str 6 melta lance. The list only has 14 darklight weapons in it which is a bit on the low side for 1750, and heat lances are pretty great for popping land raiders- whereas I find that dark lances are pretty unreliable.

The unreliability of dark lances is also why I went for dissies on the ravager- in its last 5 games mine has killed a razorback, and that's it, and it only got taken out in one game, fairly late on. For me Str 8, even with lance, just doesn't seem to get through armour very often.

The scourges were put in for a similar sort of reason, and haywire blasters are great. They're in a single unit because of the aforementioned penalties on duplicate units, I can easily split the unit up into 2 5 man squads with 2 haywire blasters otherwise though. I do find it odd to criticise a unit for being fragile when every dark eldar unit bar the coven ones has the same problem. If one's damage output is high enough I don't mind being fragile as a trade-off for being fast and hitting hard.

It does occur to me that a unit of incubi as well as a ravager and a raider all with disscannons is probably overkill on the AP2 front. I might swap Malys for a blasterchon and run him and the haemy in a blasterbon raider with a dissie. That's a pretty crazy volume of AP2 firepower, is quite a bit cheaper, and can threaten vehicles as well. As a former Tyranid player the idea of an army with nothing whatsoever that can perform in CC just worries me, it seems very risky.
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The Shade of Despair
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 09 2014, 15:50

While pretty much all dark elder units are fragile there are few who are as fragile and as expensive as the scourges. And besides when compared to warriors in a venom/raider scourges aren't even faster, sure you could deepstrike them but that's basically saying that you use them as a suicide squad which will at most take out one vehicle, but I will agree that they hit hard. Just not my cup of tea, Reavers are in comparison faster, tougher (toughness 4 as well as a 3 + cover save after turboboosting) and can still hit rather hard with their heatlances or bladevanes.

But anyways... I wish you better luck in your upcoming tournament and I hope I helped somewhat Smile
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Chuckles
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 09 2014, 17:13

@The Shade of Despair wrote:
While pretty much all dark elder units are fragile there are few who are as fragile and as expensive as the scourges. And besides when compared to warriors in a venom/raider scourges aren't even faster, sure you could deepstrike them but that's basically saying that you use them as a suicide squad which will at most take out one vehicle, but I will agree that they hit hard. Just not my cup of tea, Reavers are in comparison faster, tougher (toughness 4 as well as a 3 + cover save after turboboosting) and can still hit rather hard with their heatlances or bladevanes.

But anyways... I wish you better luck in your upcoming tournament and I hope I helped somewhat Smile

That's all fair enough, they're certainly not cheap. I'll be playtesting this so we'll see whether the scourges provide enough bang for their hefty buck or whether it's easier just to look elsewhere. It's a shame because Haywire blasters are awesome, here's hoping they're available on trueborn in the next book.

Anyway, your advice and suggestions are much appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance   1750 Kabalite list, would appreciate assistance I_icon_minitime

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