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Archon
Kabalite Warrior
Archon

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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22 2014, 16:53

Only one way to find out!  Smile 
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Mngwa
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22 2014, 19:17

@Archon wrote:
Only one way to find out!   Smile 

Mathhammer.....!!

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Wych
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22 2014, 20:04

Ha! You can't really mathhammer the usefulness of a cronos. I think three would be too many. One cronos paired with two taloi though? Probably amazing.

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Zenotaph
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 23 2014, 12:17

What about two Cronoi and a Talos? Could possibly spit Painmarkers like a hyperaktive Minigun...
But it would slow down your attack tremendously. Needs a portal.

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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 30 2014, 08:11

Dark Lance Trueborn in Venoms has allowed me to take a Talos and with the amount of fast moving infantry in my meta, the Talos is a great fit. Deploy him and move him in cover and let them come to you. Killed 6 Marines on the charge T3 last weekend Wink

Also, becareful of Liquifiers on Talos ( and other non Fleet units) as your making your charge range harder on yourself.

Just need to get him a pain token quick smart to help against heavy arms firepower

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Enociac
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 30 2014, 22:20

@Trystis wrote:
I tend to run my Talos unfashionably, with a chain flail, a ccw, and a splinter cannon. I agree it probably isn't the best load out, but it looks great on the model. Its actually my favorite heavy choice, and frequently wrecks things.

My Ravager on the other hand never seems to live long enough to kill, and when it does it isn't spectacular.

My razorwing somehow has been better anti-tank than the ravager even with 1 less dark lance. If it bothers to show up...

Are you me? I don't run Taloi, but you've got my ravager/razorwing situation perfectly.
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Elzadar
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 01:55

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
Ha! You can't really mathhammer the usefulness of a cronos. I think three would be too many. One cronos paired with two taloi though? Probably amazing.

hmm gotta test that one out

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 01 2014, 03:19

Run it like a Tyranid army. Lots of monsters. 2 Taloi, Cronos, loads of Grots, Beastpack. Lots of gribblies, they'll hopefully be overwhelmed.

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the_dukes_scion
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 09:06

that would be cool. I guess its an extension of the flesh carnival per se, but would be awesome to see. Have another talos now, hmmm

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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 09:26

I like Cronos, and using "Reaper" (converted) sometimes

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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 09:53

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Run it like a Tyranid army. Lots of monsters. 2 Taloi, Cronos, loads of Grots, Beastpack. Lots of gribblies, they'll hopefully be overwhelmed.

Love the idea but no Synapse equivalent Sad

As we reach the end of 6th I'm loving 2 Ravagers and 1 Talos w/ TL Splinter Cannon, I hide him and wait for the enemy to approach mid game, Talos jumps out and gets busy from then on

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 13:15

@1++ wrote:
Love the idea but no Synapse equivalent Sad

How about the character needed for the grots?

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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 13:43

@Zenotaph wrote:
@1++ wrote:
Love the idea but no Synapse equivalent Sad

How about the character needed for the grots?

A Fearless character, or Urien as he + the Grots will have 3 paintokens = Fearless ( remebrr he also gives d3 bonus tokens...)

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 14:04

I meant the character needed, because the grots go berserk without...

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valmir
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue May 13 2014, 23:47

@notts wrote:


and rules wise, if you buy the liquifier but not the extra ccw, does that effect it's CC attacks?

Sorry to come back to this, but I don't think it was really answered.

You replace the ccw with a liquifier. Does that mean that he liquifier acts as a ccw in cc (i.e., the Talos bashes the enemy on the head with it or something)? Or does it mean that the Talos gets 0 attacks? So if I take a liquifier AND an additional ccw, do I get d6+1?
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Anterzhul
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 14 2014, 08:27

You don't need a CCW to attack in CC, so 1 CCW = 0 CCW(in the liquifiers case) so you still get D6 attacks + 1 for charging.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 14 2014, 09:14

@valmir wrote:
@notts wrote:


and rules wise, if you buy the liquifier but not the extra ccw, does that effect it's CC attacks?

Sorry to come back to this, but I don't think it was really answered.

You replace the ccw with a liquifier. Does that mean that he liquifier acts as a ccw in cc (i.e., the Talos bashes the enemy on the head with it or something)? Or does it mean that the Talos gets 0 attacks? So if I take a liquifier AND an additional ccw, do I get d6+1?

Liguifier is not a cc weapon. So it doesn't matter if you take one extra cc weapon and a liguifier. Allthough I don't see much point in a liguifier. Talos doesn't lack AP2 attacks in cc and the liguifier has a big potential to kill too many models to make the charge. Talos (and Every other liguifier carrier) doesn't have fleet so I have elected not to take liguifiers even though they would be great.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 14 2014, 09:26

Models are treated as always having effectively a CCW, even if they don't have one written down. Don't remember the page to cite it to you, but think of a marine; they start with bolter and bolt pistol, but are also allowed to make Close Combat attacks. Same with Kabbies.


The Liquifier doesn't count as a CCW for any purposes though; it's just a gun.
The Talos gets 1d6 attacks base.
If you buy the extra CCW, now having two, you have 1d6+1 attacks.
If you swap his CCW for a LG, you have 1d6 attacks.
If you buy the extra CCW, and swap one for a LG, you have 1d6 attacks (having one CCW and one LG).
If you buy the extra CCW, and swap one for the Ichor Injector, you have 1d6+1 attacks (because the description on p.40 of Ichor Injector specifically calls it a CCW).
If you buy the extra CCW, and swap one for the Chain-Flails, you have (best of 2d6) +1 attacks (because the description on p.40 of Chain-Flails specifically calls it a CCW as well).
So on and so forth

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valmir
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 14 2014, 23:15

So if you take the liquifier, then the extra ccw is actually a total waste of 15 points? Good to know! I've been paying for it every game, but playing it as 1d6... Notts' question was the first time I'd actually tried to think through the logic of it...
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 15 2014, 10:09

@Laughingcarp wrote:
If you buy the extra CCW, and swap one for the Chain-Flails, you have (best of 2d6) +1 attacks (because the description on p.40 of Chain-Flails specifically calls it a CCW as well).

I used to play that as well, but then I read the rules again. The chainflail counts as special ccw,
so you don't get the +1A for the other ccw, since you need 2 special ccws, just like powerclaws...
Unless the 'special' is just a bad translation from english to german.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 15 2014, 10:31

@Zenotaph wrote:
@Laughingcarp wrote:
If you buy the extra CCW, and swap one for the Chain-Flails, you have (best of 2d6) +1 attacks (because the description on p.40 of Chain-Flails specifically calls it a CCW as well).

I used to play that as well, but then I read the rules again. The chainflail counts as special ccw,
so you don't get the +1A for the other ccw, since you need 2 special ccws, just like powerclaws...
Unless the 'special' is just a bad translation from english to german.

It's not a bad translation but 'special' is not the same as 'specialist'. In order for that rule to apply the weapon would need to have been amended in the FAQ to have the Specialist rule, which it wasn't. So Laughingcarp is indeed correct.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: heavy support options   heavy support options - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 15 2014, 10:40

Hey, that's good to know. I'd better rewrite my armylist again.  Very Happy 

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