20 man kabalite unit
Evil Space Elves
Posts : 167
Join date : 2014-03-01
|Subject: 20 man kabalite unit Wed Apr 02 2014, 02:39|| |
What do you think of a 20 kabalite warriors unit on foot? Is it viable if deployed in cover with a haemie for fnp and a drakon for pgl?
Posts : 557
Join date : 2012-12-02
|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Wed Apr 02 2014, 03:26|| |
20 warriors can certainly be viable. The key is to use them well which is the difficult part. Ultimately, this will depend on your list and play style.
A haemie seems reasonable but I wouldn't waste the points on the drakon and pgl. You should never be assaulting with warriors! I would run 20 behind an aegis with the quad gun to throw out more dakka. And in dire needs shoot at flyers. If you run multiple blobs or some monstrous creatures a blob will not attract as much attention.
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Archon Atersol of the Kabal of the Ebbing Sun
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Wed Apr 02 2014, 03:42|| |
The sybarite is probably worth it for the leadership buff. You'll be taking leadership tests after losing five guys. The PGL isn't worth it though. If you get assaulted they're dead anyway. A generic haemie only has a Leadership of 8 so the sybarite gives them a 9.
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|Evil Space Elves|
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Wed Apr 02 2014, 04:07|| |
I personally haven't run the 20 man unit in 5th or 6th edition for the simple reason that I like my troops mobile. The usual justification for a 20 man unit is staying power for a troop unit that you want to hold objectives, but I just always feel that a unit that big would be a liability if assaulted (and at T3, shot at
That being said, I would totally see less-experienced opponents over/underestimating the unit, thereby overreacting and dishing out too many attacks to deal with it, or totally ignoring it.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Fri Apr 04 2014, 00:15|| |
Thank you for the comments! Good point for the leadership.
I think I'll try a blob just for fun in a small points games (maybe 750) backed with a Talos and a ravager.
My idea about the pgl was to remove the ork's assault bonus.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Sat Apr 05 2014, 19:46|| |
20 warriors is to expensive for waht they do. To be cost effectiv and killy, they nead to be within rapid fire range from bolters, and we know how well that ends..
The only thing they can accomplish is massed splinter fire, and with a homunculus we are talking around 250pts for 25 poision shoots.
For a few pts less u could have two squads of 5 warriors in venoms, that's more firepower, and thay can shoot at 4 different targets, or force 4 grounding test for a fmc. Have mobility and all the perks that comes with that.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Mon Apr 07 2014, 20:35|| |
I quite like the idea of a 20 man unit to sit on an objective or in cover near one with a haemonculus as a "if you come close, we'll shoot you to death" as well as the overwatch giggles. and with feel no pain, it'll take while to get them out of whatever they are holding. I tend to equip my sybarite with a venom blade in case they are charged by something that is pretty tough, they'll have at least a chance of wounding it (poison ftw)
Archon Valcron Dextrous - Kabal of the Blood Shedders
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Mon Apr 07 2014, 20:39|| |
actually i am building an army around duke sliscus, grotesque boat + haemoncolus,2 units of 6 reavers and the compulsory ravagers. as for troops i was thinking of running a 20 man warrior squad with 2 splinter canons inside. since the duke will join them, and eventually the haemoncolus, depending on the mission, the will be at 3+ to wounds with 32/36 shots within 24" and 44/48 shots within 12" range (in theory if nobody dies).
In my list grisly trophies on my ravagers or raiders seem like a better choice than the sybarite for that units, since the duke has also LD9 and if he stays in that unit (think of a cc challenge against MCs, 4 rerolls per turn) the sybarite LD bonus will be useless. When the duke joins the grotesques boats the 20 man squad really needs at least grisly trophies nearby.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Mon Apr 07 2014, 23:10|| |
Ive been toying with variations of a DE blob squad myself but its been difficult to dial one in. The problem is not so much its cost or its firepower.. its the lack of economical fearless and its 5+ AS.
Cover ignoring weaponry is abound so the unit needs fearless and FNP if it is to be viable IMO. Vect is not really economical but he does bring fearless, his seizing ability, and gives the blob the ability to fight its way out of combats.
Another idea Ive been entertaining is putting a couple haemies + hex rifles in a blob inside a bastion. Yea its probably not that competitive but it will hold pretty decently and the unit will actually really scare MCs and one kill later and its fearless.. maybe even add the shattershard and an escape hatch for some tactical flexibility.
Anyway thats what Ive got for blob squads.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Tue Apr 08 2014, 11:19|| |
Has anyone tried a blob or 2 deployed via a portal?
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Thu Apr 10 2014, 05:22|| |
Yeah, I've run one in an Iyanden list, as part of my DE allies.
- Archon and WWP:
I think the important lesson here is to always drop the portal the first chance you get.
- Haemunculi w/ WWP:
In summary: my experience is that a 20 man kabalite squad goes great with a wwp. I've only ever had them really fail me once. They're way more flexible and deadly than a 20 man squad of guardians and FnP makes them very resilient.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Sat Apr 19 2014, 00:22|| |
Ive used a 20 man unit with 2 cannons and a sybarite for a long time now. Its very effective in my style of list, involving a beast star. People tend to focus most of their shooting at the beasts allowing the warriors to flood middle and put out a good solid amount of firepower. In certain matchups such as against monstrous creature lists they are actually my focus point and the beasts run as secondary screen.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Sat Apr 19 2014, 16:03|| |
I've only tried the unit a couple of times myself - the first time they held my backfield fantastically, wiping out units that had slogged through the rest of my army with ease (they didn't lose a man). The second time, they sat midfield with a Farseer giving them re-rolls to hit and letting them ignore cover with their dark lances and blasters. They stayed put the entire game too. If you deploy them right, or channel your enemy into them, they're great, but they don't have the flexibility of a ten man unit in a Raider. A couple of haemonculi will obviously make them much more resilient, but careful not to go too overboard on their gear or the unit will get too expensive (and they can still die very easily should your opponent decide they have to). A liquifier gun each would be my advice if you give them anything, you only want them for the pain tokens really.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Sun Apr 20 2014, 07:19|| |
In 5th I used a 20 man blob extensively. When 6th came out I continued with the blob for quite a while. It is durable for dark elder and can hold an objective very well. Also, with FNP and going to ground they can be quite resilient. However, for the same price you can have two squads of ten. That split made quite a few improvements for tactical options available and the durability didn't really suffer if the units are in the same general area.
I recommend a few base foot squads with splinter cannons. They are great kid board objective holders.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Sun Apr 20 2014, 10:15|| |
Well, nothing will stop bike squad with a chapter master just assault them. And there goes your 20 man kabalite unit. This unit doesnt fit in what i think is a Dark Eldar way.
Maybe from a wwp portal, but that kinda require super table with a lot of los blocks.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Sun Apr 20 2014, 14:20|| |
- @Massaen wrote:
- Has anyone tried a blob or 2 deployed via a portal?
I have. Two blobs of twenty (one had Sliscus) coming out of a portal with a Talos Parasite Engine really makes the enemy cower. Of course, that's after they think that they're winning because you didn't have as much on the board as them.
For this approach I take Haemies split up and put with Wracks in Raiders to fly forward, get into combat and deploy the portals. It's tough to get it to work for me, as I don't have much experience with Wracks, but when it works it is fantastic!
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Mon Apr 21 2014, 00:34|| |
- @Azdrubael wrote:
- Well, nothing will stop bike squad with a chapter master just assault them. And there goes your 20 man kabalite unit. This unit doesnt fit in what i think is a Dark Eldar way.
My beast pack in front of them stops the chapter master from assaulting my warriors pretty well.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit Fri Apr 25 2014, 09:09|| |
I play quite a few lists for the moment, its a few months between next turnaments.
And one of the lists I play is Eldar/DE with 20 Warriors.
Its something like this:
Farseer with shard of anaris
20x Kabelite Warriors
6x Swooping hawks
6x Swooping hawks
Skyshield landingpad (because its OP and the most broken thing you can take)
So the Idea is much like guardian blobs, I have 2x Bright lances and 2x Dark Lances. Roll for divination and hope to get all goodies like Full BS overwatch, Forwarning etc. Both of the groups are fearless ofcours so its 20 wounds that actually needs to be killed, the warriors got FNP aswell and litle bit better range than the Guardian blob, even tho the blob is more mobile.
The list have performed fantastic for me so far. I would like another way to get the warriors Fearless, but for now I dont have any that cost 150pts or less.
Plays Dark Eldar, Eldar and Harlequins.
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|Subject: Re: 20 man kabalite unit || |
20 man kabalite unit