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 Fun Coven Army (1750)

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Shingen
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PostSubject: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 26 2014, 22:47

This list is for fun at the local gaming center more than anything although I might use it in local tournaments if I am down just for a laugh.

I dont think it would be terribly competitive but it might give some armies a bit of a scare.

Looking for some advice from anyone who knows these sorts of units better than I!

HQ
6x Haemonculus - 6x Liqifier Gun, 5x Venom Blade, 1x Scissorhand


Troops
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier Gun, Venom (2x SC)
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier Gun, Venom (2x SC)
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier Gun, Venom (2x SC)


Elites
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifier Gun, Raider (FF, Lance)
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifier Gun, Raider (FF, Lance)
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifier Gun, Raider (FF, Lance)


Heavy Support
3x Talos - 3x Splinter Cannon, 3x Liquifier Gun


So yeah essentially in this format:

> 2x Haemo's with each Grot unit meaning they all have FNP, FC & Fearless.
> 15x Liquifier Guns
> Zero anti air except for the Raiders Lances!
> Tons of Poison


Basic rule of thumb, turbo boost everything to one side of opponants army and try to work your way from one side to the other. Hopefully flyers and such will not be of much use as I am planning on multi assaulting everything so I am pretty much locked in combat the entire game.

The only real issue I have is the Talos', as they can only go 6" its going to take them a while to catch up.

Fully expecting all the vehicles to die very quickly, they are just 30" turn one disposable movement models.


Thoughts and suggestions?

Cheers

Gaz
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Athalkar
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 27 2014, 02:52

Caveat: if you don't like what I suggest ignore it.  

-Minimally, I would switch the venoms for raiders.  In additional to anti air you're waiting for the talos to arrive to really threaten vehicles with a 13 rear armor or walkers with a 13 front armor.  

Its unlikely that your opponent will be able to destroy all six vehicles in a single turn, especially since after your 30" charge they have a 4+ cover.  However, with 3 and 3 for venoms and raiders, your of opponent would be able to target priority off either just the venoms or just the raiders whichever he his weakest too.   Your list is weak against large armor vehicles and flyers, so the raiders give you some additional lance shots.

-I know it is just for a fun game, but with only 15 scoring models it will be difficult to win outside of tabling your opponent.  I would ditch a grot squad and use the points to fill in your wrack squads with additional bodies to make them more durable. (this lowers your vehicle count sooooooo)

-Worth considering is to put a hammy in with the wracks-- it would even out the liquifier distribution and give the second pain token to the wracks giving them the s4 on the charge and re-roll against MEQ.  

-Aberration upgrade for the grotesques-- It is worth its weight in gold: (1) extra attach (from character) (2) another extra attack from getting a venom blade (adds a CC doesn't replace; i.e., now has 2 ccs) and (3) since the attacks are now poison and the naturally high strength means he will now be re-roll most of to wound rolls.  

-Also consider swapping out one of the Talos with a Chronos, and ap3 flamer and ap3 large blast aren't bad and they can throw pain tokens around to your talos give them feel no pain.  There is something wrong awesome about feel no pain on t7.

Talos are slow but I've never been sorry for taking one in any game; however, I cannot comment on how they will perform with your list as the only coven lists I've experimented with have used a the webway.  Usually they pay for them selves as a fire magnet but with your list dropping the coven right on them at T1 will probably overwhelm them with a more pressing concern.  

I would speculate though, that the Talos will be invaluable to you if your opponent goes firsts and manages to down several of your vehicles and you have to foot slog it and probably play for the objectives.
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Shingen
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PostSubject: Re: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 27 2014, 09:48

All valid points. I'll have a fiddle.
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PostSubject: Re: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 27 2014, 18:17

I really like this list! Since its a fun list I assume you will be facing fun lists too.

I would probably consider taking sails on your grot raiders, to be in your opponents face turn 1. The grots can take the blow when the raiders are shot down and gives the taloses time to get to where you want them.

Perhaps a shock prow too to smash the raiders into tanks?
As I said before, the grots can tale the blow and they wont get pinned since they are fearless with the pain tokens.
Plus you might even make your flickerfield save!
Your opponent will have a hard time choosing a target, what should he shoot first? The terrible grots that are in his face or the taloses that are about to be?

You can always use the grots to roll over a tank or two since you have S6 on the charge and hit the rear armour.

A Chronos is awesome for getting fnp to the talos, I was uncertain whether he was worth it before I played with one but now I almost always bring him!

This is my idea of how to play fun games anyway:)
(Omw home from work so I wrote this on my cellphone on the train so have a hard time overviewing what I just wrote...)
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Athalkar
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PostSubject: Re: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 27 2014, 20:14

I would second the sails. Coven units don't have fleet so they need to be close and the little be extra can mean the difference between a T2 charge and a T3 charge, especially against artillery units deployed at the very back.

Shock prow and the sail combo is worth considering (and are hilarious when it works) but it starts to rack of the points on vehicle upgrades so by no means a must.

Bracklish reminded me of a important matter to consider; if you move some hamys to the wracks, you won't have the three for fearless in the Grots... so that is something to consider.

Last and not least, consider Urien... a couple cons is that he is going to reduce your liquifier count, takes away 3 hammies (and costs about the same amount (well after upgrades to the hammies urien is cheaper than three)) and it is possible that you want get as many pain tokens to stars.

The last con is mitigated by the fact he gets a pain token and can distribute additional pain tokens (i.e., 66% chance of having the same or more as 3 hammies and 33% of having less).

Some pros to taking Urien, automatically regenerates, high toughness and the clone filed and instant kill weapon make for some great challenges. Last and not least, uber grots with a higher strength.

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PostSubject: Re: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 27 2014, 21:05

Okay a few changes  Smile

Mostly the same however added another Venom Blade, Shock Prows and swapped a Talos to a Cronos.

Shock Prowing someones Land Raider turn 1 could be amusing. Plus there is a good chance I could ram a couple of troops choices off the board as well.

With regards to this "I would second the sails. Coven units don't have fleet so they need to be close and the little be extra can mean the difference between a T2 charge and a T3 charge, especially against artillery units deployed at the very back."

Really with a 30" move turn 1 and a 6" move and 6" deploy turn 2 I should be in range of pretty much anything on the board so I dont think the Sails are needed. I will do some playtesting though Smile

HQ
6x Haemonculus - 6x Liqifier Gun, 6x Venom Blade


Troops
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier Gun, Venom (2x SC)
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier Gun, Venom (2x SC)
5x Wracks - 1x Liquifier Gun, Venom (2x SC)


Elites
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifier Gun, Raider (FF, Lance, Shock Prow)
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifier Gun, Raider (FF, Lance, Shock Prow)
4x Grotesques - 1x Liquifier Gun, Raider (FF, Lance, Shock Prow)


Heavy Support
2x Talos - 3x Splinter Cannon, 3x Liquifier Gun
1x Cronos Parasite Engine - Spirit Vortex


I play 1850 normally however at the club next week we are playing 1750. The 1850 list should be a tad more amusing, I basically took 3 more Raiders for the Wracks & gave all the Haemo's Power Weapons. Should make them a bit better in combat against normal units. The Wracks can still kill MC's and the Talos / Cronos can as well.

6x Shock Prows could be entertaining Smile
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Shingen
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PostSubject: Re: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 27 2014, 21:32

Actually after reading the rules on ramming and tank shock the rams are pretty pointless.

You cannot disembark on a turn you tank shock or ram in which case the vehicles wouldn't be able to do it until turn 3.

Sails would help as long as you roll a 9 or above on 2d6 otherwise on turn 1 you wouldn't be able to cover the 24"'s between deployment zones. Sort of risky, I would rather just flat out the 30"'s I think to be honest.

I will still keep the Shock Prows on for now, if a Raider is alive turn 3 I will plow it into a unit thats annoying me before I squirt and charge them...
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Athalkar
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PostSubject: Re: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 27 2014, 21:57

Sounds goods.  For the shock pows just remember that without the sail 10 times out of 10 the lance will hit harder.  The advantage is that you don't miss. (oh and give you a tank shock option)
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PostSubject: Re: Fun Coven Army (1750)   Fun Coven Army (1750) I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 28 2014, 22:58

Just play tested this against my nid list (tabled Eldar turn 2 yesterday so it's a pretty strong list) and it did pretty well (took ravagers instead of the mc's).

The liquifiers didn't perform fantastically well but I wouldn't expect them to against 9 shrikes and 9 raveners.

The grot squads are Damn hard to kill though. Even the flyrants had trouble.

More playtesting needed but it was fun.

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