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melkorthetonedeaf
Hellion
melkorthetonedeaf

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PostSubject: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 00:02

I played two 500pt games today vs Grey Knights and was pretty much tabled both games. I know I made some rookie mistakes, but I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice to step up my game.

We're doing an escalation league, starting with 500, so I wanted to try this out:

Archon w/blaster
3x Trueborn w/2x Dark Lances
5x Wyches in a Venom (cannon, flickerfield, HWG)
6x Kabalites in a Raider (flickerfield, nightshield)
3x Reavers

He brought 3 tanks and a few cheaper dudes the first time. The 2nd time he went with 10 terminators (i think, i have no idea what models they have really). There wasn't much cover to deal with except in the middle of the board, so my plan was to book it to cover.

Both times I kept my Dark Lance Trueborn in the back as snipers. They were pretty effective, but I was really only taking out 1 model per turn with them. The Venom blew up both times before delivering the Wyches (it mananged to take out a few models first). I moved the Kabalites up to get in range, then disembarked to claim an objective. The next turn the Raider was a wreck, my Archon was down to 1 wound, and I had 1 Warrior left. Reavers turbo-boosted all over bladevaning and took out a few models.

Some mistakes I KNOW I made:
- not staying in cover
- not cheating (oh wait! strike that)
- moving my Raider up too close (should've disembarked into cover and harassed with the Dark Lance)
- Should've put more Kabalites in the Venom instead of Wyches
- relying too much on poison without enough armor cracking
- forgetting to roll for drugs (could've helped the Reavers)

I'm still getting the hang of the game and this army, so any tips would be appreciated.

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Archon-Hidicul
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 00:58

When I take warriors on a raider I always give it racks. You'd be surprised how many termies you can kill with twin-liked splinter rifles. If you want to increase their killing put the duke with them. I used to easily defeat draigo-wing with that tactic.
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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 01:11

AHH CRAP!!! I took racks and completely forgot to use them!!!!! AARRGGGHHHHh..

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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 02:06

I'm looking at ways I can improve, and one thing is staring me right in the face:

"Remember your gear and special rules, dummy".

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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 02:59

An archon with a blaster is a waste of his potential. He is a close combat god...give him a huskblade or another assortment of CC weapons like an agoniser and go to town...its a bunch of points but it uses his potential. If you need to find points you could drop the upgrades on the raider.

Then put the warriors in the venom and wyches and archon in the raider for CC use and AT if you need it.

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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 03:05

Okay, so I should keep the Wyches with the Archon for close combat and just use the Venom to harass? I think I had the Warriors in the Raider for the Splinter Racks, but forget to use them...

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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 04:19

500 points is tough. but it should be tougher on him than on you. (grey knights are expensive)

Try this:

5X wyches w. haywire
Venom w. 2 splintercannons

Haemonculus
5X Kabalite warriors
Raider

Ravager
Ravager

That leaves you 10 points to spend on either a night shield for one of the ravagers (my recommendation) or splinter racks on the raider if you are so inclined.
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Expletive Deleted
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 13:39

Not sure how much you want to tailor your list for grey knights, but check out the profile for disintegrator cannons. Slap three of those on a ravager and give it night shields and watch one unit disassemble his entire army.

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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 19:10

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
Not sure how much you want to tailor your list for grey knights, but check out the profile for disintegrator cannons. Slap three of those on a ravager and give it night shields and watch one unit disassemble his entire army.

I really shouldn't tailor too much, but this is an amazing tip for dealing with GK. I suppose I'll read the tactics forum on here a bit more. I believe the meta will have a lot of Eldar, Space Marines and Chaos mostly, but I know a few others play Tau and Necrons.

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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 24 2014, 20:50

If you can, try and make sure the board has *some* terrain. Noone can really argue for an empty table (unless it's part of some sort of campaign feature). Also did you remember to roll for night fighting?? Always helps us.

I'd use the raider for your assault unit and your venom for your shooters and try and keep it out of return fire range where you can. Also I'd cut vehicle upgrades on the raider to get more troops.

Also remember destroyed vehicles make their own terrain - either a crater or a floating wreck.
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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 25 2014, 13:02

Night Fighting!! CRAP AGAIN!!

I'm beginning to see a trend here, and that is that I need to play more and remember the game features which help my army most.

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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 25 2014, 13:31

I think I'll stick with something simple to start, looking over all the comments. Going to take a Haemonculus (maybe w/ hexrifle), two units of Warriors in Raiders, and 4x Trueborn w/ cannons in a Venom.

The 4x4 boards we're playing on don't have too much terrain, but I think hanging back and pew-pewing might be a better strategy for me (at least for now). I'll work up to CC units once I'm more comfortable with everything.

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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 25 2014, 13:32

It comes with time dude. The first couple months I started playing I forgot to roll my combat drugs about 3/4ths the time. I also didn't roll night fighting because I didn't think it was important.

Also hint: If you want your trueborn to be more effective, give them both splinter cannons and put them on a venom. One of the truly nastier units in the codex for a bargain price. Albeit I was a bit lucky with rolls here I wiped out a squad of terminators in one turn with it. 24-26 poison shots is going to force some serious armor saves. But moreso it will be deadly to any unit with a toughness characteristic.

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Archon-Hidicul
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 25 2014, 17:51

If your gonna go with splinter cannon trueborn put carbines on the other three. You loose 6" of range but you always fire max shots. 29-33 is nasty.
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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 26 2014, 00:26

reworked it a bit:

Haemonculus (liquifier just in case)

4x Trueborn with 2x cannons, 2x carbines in a Venom w/ cannons, flickerfield
7x Kabalites in a Raider w/ nightshield, splinter racks
7x Kabalites in a Raider w/ nightshield, splinter racks

I'm positive that I want to keep away from CC for now until I get the hang of things. I am debating taking 10x Kabalites to get another cannon, but I like the two units balanced.



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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 26 2014, 01:08

Disagree with the carbines. With the 10 points you spent on those two carbines you could have bought nightshields and made the unit harder to target. What makes the trueborn with splinter cannons so fantastic is they have a threat radius of 42". To use the carbines you reduce it to 24". On that note the extra trueborn serves little purpose. If played right he'll rarely be in range to shoot.

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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 26 2014, 12:57

Word! Thanks for the advice gang! I will let you know how it goes.

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The Red
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 02 2014, 20:17

I have to second the ravager with disintegrator cannons as this is what they are used for (negating power/terminator armor)
-9 shots with +3 to hit and +3 to wound with no saves. Or use the DL's for the tanks.
-A ravager gets the +4 jink with its aerial assualt rule.
-And its a huge distraction/target so the rest of your transports can get up were they need to be.
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PostSubject: Re: some help for a newb?   some help for a newb? I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 03 2014, 18:45

Sorry red it only gets 5+ jink save unless it goes flat out (in which case it can't fire).

Disintegrators are good on occasion but often there will be cover saves available so they're not insta-kills. Only take if you can swap them out for lances on your model as you *will* want dark lance ravagers more often.
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