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django_unchained
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PostSubject: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 17 2014, 18:54

Hey guys, I am at peace with the fact that I'm not a studio quality painter. I'm also at peace with the fact that Dark Eldar is definitely a challenge to do the models justice. So, without further adeu, here is my archon. My questions / requests are as follows:

Does it look decent enough to be considered tabletop quality, or at least quasi do the army justice?


How could I improve this model? (Keep in mind my only real skills atm with painting are dry brushing, using washes, edge highlighting / line work. A strong desire to get better, but am not sure where to start.).

I would like the truth above all else. Thanks in advance!

https://2img.net/h/s25.postimg.cc/rikzfo6fz/archon2.jpg


https://2img.net/h/s25.postimg.cc/xv04pi9i7/archon1.jpg


Sorry for the inconviencence but it seems you'll have to right click the image and select "open in new tab". Thanks so much


Last edited by django_unchained on Mon Feb 17 2014, 20:50; edited 1 time in total
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 17 2014, 20:45

I can't actually see anything, not even something you can right click on.
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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 17 2014, 20:51

Hey there, Sorry about that. Instead I included direct links to the picture.
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melkorthetonedeaf
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 00:34

the pic's a little low-res, but i like the color scheme and paint job. i'm not a fan of the Sauron looking head, but it works.

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GAR
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 20:51

overall it looks OK.

keeping your skill level in mind, one of the things that will help is increasing the transition of the shading to highlighting. From the picture it looks a little flat. I see the highlight and I see the base black, but I think to make it stand out a little more, stronger transition would go a long way.

I'll use a couple of my own models to help illustrate.

this model has some shading and highlighting, it looks pretty flat. I could edge highlight, but that really doesn't get me anything.
New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  DSC02155

However, I increased the transition from dark to light and a lot of the starkness disappears.
New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  DSC02207

Now its all fine well and good for me to say this, but how does one do this?

one way to achieve this is to do layering. It will take several colors, but if you were to use 5 colors instead of 3, a lot of things will begin to show up and get you the results you want.

your base 3 consist of the industry standard ( shade color, base color, and highlight color) applied in which ever fashion you prefer, base, wash with shade, add hi-light, or work from dark to light or light to dark. it really doesn't matter which one, they are all up to the individual.

Now to use a base 5, I like to start from dark to light, it easist if you don't have the steadiest of hands and want an easily reproducible result.
paint your shade color to the entire model that will be using that color
mix your shade and base color 50-50
paint your shade-base color leaving some of the shade behind in the darkest cracks and corners.
paint the model again with the base, but only about half of the area so some of thr shade-base still shows
mix your base with the highlight color 50-50
apply your hi-lite-base color to about 1/3 to 1/4 of the model, where the highlight would naturally fall so some of your base still shows.
then apply the highlight color only to the sharpest edges and points'corners of the model.

It takes a bit longer, but this is a decent way to transition into higher quality painting and begin to develop the skills of the better painters.
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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 21:07

@GAR wrote:
overall it looks OK.

keeping your skill level in mind, one of the things that will help is increasing the transition of the shading to highlighting. From the picture it looks a little flat. I see the highlight and I see the base black, but I think to make it stand out a little more, stronger transition would go a long way.

I'll use a couple of my own models to help illustrate.

this model has some shading and highlighting, it looks pretty flat. I could edge highlight, but that really doesn't get me anything.
New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  DSC02155

However, I increased the transition from dark to light and a lot of the starkness disappears.
New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  DSC02207

Now its all fine well and good for me to say this, but how does one do this?

one way to achieve this is to do layering. It will take several colors, but if you were to use 5 colors instead of 3, a lot of things will begin to show up and get you the results you want.

your base 3 consist of the industry standard ( shade color, base color, and highlight color) applied in which ever fashion you prefer, base, wash with shade, add hi-light, or work from dark to light or light to dark. it really doesn't matter which one, they are all up to the individual.

Now to use a base 5, I like to start from dark to light, it easist if you don't have the steadiest of hands and want an easily reproducible result.
paint your shade color to the entire model that will be using that color
mix your shade and base color 50-50
paint your shade-base color leaving some of the shade behind in the darkest cracks and corners.
paint the model again with the base, but only about half of the area so some of thr shade-base still shows
mix your base with the highlight color 50-50
apply your hi-lite-base color to about 1/3 to 1/4 of the model, where the highlight would naturally fall so some of your base still shows.
then apply the highlight color only to the sharpest edges and points'corners of the model.

It takes a bit longer, but this is a decent way to transition into higher quality painting and begin to develop the skills of the better painters.


What a great response, a friend of mine mentioned to do this to achieve the way GW paints their Dark Eldar i.e. Kabal of the Black Heart:

Spray black > mix incubi darkness 50/50 with chaos black> Basecoat with this mixture>Wash Black> Highlight. Will this be a good tactic?
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 21:12

If you go from dark to light, then you don't need to wash, as you will leave some of the black for the deepest shadows.
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 21:17

@GAR wrote:
If you go from dark to light, then you don't need to wash, as you will leave some of the black for the deepest shadows.


So is essentially what my friend told me, what you're saying but in reverse? If so, it seems easier to go for the base of the 50/50 incubi darkness/chaos black, then wash black. No?
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 21:49

I assume your friend is saying that you use black as the primer, paint your shade color, then base color, then wash it.

I am saying to use your darkest color as the shade, then use a mix of shade and base 50-50, then your base, and then keep adding lighter and lighter colors. If you go from your darkest color to your lightest color, then you should not have to go back and wash again because you keep adding lighter colors to smaller areas that you are painting.

its almost the same thing, I just don't go back and wash the model again.
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 21:54

excuse my ignorance. what do you mean by the shade color? I assumed washes shade the model, so do you mean the wash color is my shade color?
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 22:06

no worries,

your shade is the darkest color on the particular model you are painting. Most people use a wash to shade the model, what this means is they are applying a darker color that collects in the recesses and crevices of the part of the model they are painting.

What I am suggesting is not using a wash at all, but starting with a darker color to begin with as the shade.

So for example, you would use a Rhinox hide as the 1st color you put down, this becomes your shade. Then the next color would be a 50-50 mix of rhinox hide and say Snakebite leather ( or whatever the next medium brown color is now, XV-88 ??), then apply pure snakebite, then mix snakebite with a soft yellow and then pure yellow or bone white.
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 16:35

Gar, Took a stab at it last night, took me two hours, but I think I'm happy with this. Could you critique?

https://2img.net/h/s25.postimg.cc/ypwbmed27/kabalite_warrior.jpg


https://2img.net/h/s25.postimg.cc/d4vucj5pb/kabalite_warrior2.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 16:56

That's a lot better.

The only thing I see is the highlight is really very stark, but the transition is much better.

I would recommend going a bit darker on the highlight color.

I think the color you are using is an older ice blue color, I might try for something closer to enchanted blue and then maybe apply the ice blue color only on the points of the armor.

I love the improvement. A lot of times small changes make big strides forward as a painter. Don't give up.
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 17:18

@GAR wrote:
That's a lot better.

The only thing I see is the highlight is really very stark, but the transition is much better.

I would recommend going a bit darker on the highlight color.

I think the color you are using is an older ice blue color, I might try for something closer to enchanted blue and then maybe apply the ice blue color only on the points of the armor.

I love the improvement. A lot of times small changes make big strides forward as a painter. Don't give up.


I really appreciate the feedback. For highlighting, I'm assuming you're talking about my edge work on the armor? What I did was use Kabalite Green, then a layer on top of that of Sybarite green. I also used a crap camera phone with a flash on, so that maybe made it look too bright as well. I really do appreciate all the feedback and because of your help yesterday, I feel I Definitely grew a little in my painting. What would you recommend as my next step? Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 17:27

Actually here's an updated pic!!! without the flash


https://2img.net/h/s25.postimg.cc/p81603grj/kabalite_warrior_3.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 18:10

that looks way better than the first pictures.

One thing is if you have a basic photo editing software, most PCs have a simple one and you can do an autocorrect and it fixes a lot of the sharp contrast and color due to lighting.

For the next step, my first recommendation is to focus on being a neat and clean of a painter as possible. smooth clean steady lines will go a long way, and even if you never move on to more advanced techniques, if the painting is neat, it makes everything look really good. it also trains your hand to be more steady.

from there its kind of wide open what you want to do.  I personally do a lot of wet blending on the model, drives most people nuts but its what I like to do. Blending in of itself take s a little bit of practice to get the hang of, but it yields some great results.

Ultimately its up to you and how much effort you want to put into gaming models. That should be the driver in how you want to progress.

You can always go check out my Project log " the black Halo" to see my models, but one of the ones  I recommend is Evil Space Elves. he has a lot of work in progress steps and has grown a lot as a painter since he started his DE project.


The Black Halo


An "Evil" Project
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 18:15

@GAR wrote:
that looks way better than the first pictures.

One thing is if you have a basic photo editing software, most PCs have a simple one and you can do an autocorrect and it fixes a lot of the sharp contrast and color due to lighting.

For the next step, my first recommendation is to focus on being a neat and clean of a painter as possible. smooth clean steady lines will go a long way, and even if you never move on to more advanced techniques, if the painting is neat, it makes everything look really good. it also trains your hand to be more steady.

from there its kind of wide open what you want to do.  I personally do a lot of wet blending on the model, drives most people nuts but its what I like to do. Blending in of itself take s a little bit of practice to get the hang of, but it yields some great results.

Ultimately its up to you and how much effort you want to put into gaming models. That should be the driver in how you want to progress.

You can always go check out my Project log " the black Halo" to see my models, but one of the ones  I recommend is Evil Space Elves. he has a lot of work in progress steps and has grown a lot as a painter since he started his DE project.


The Black Halo


An "Evil" Project


You've really made an impact on me. You're an asset to the dark city. Thank you.

Do my lines look clean and neat? Also, did it make a difference doing kabalite green first, then going over it with the sybarite green? Or can I skip the Kabalate green phase?
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 20:58

How about this.

New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  A97d93bf-5f24-4e38-8924-43b29c968f86_zps6efb7681

I find it helps if I can show what and where I am refering to rather than try to explain it all.
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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 21:17

Well shucks, I'm humbled... lol.

I do plan on touching these up over time, I just don't want grey models lol. Would these be considered a solid table top quality? Perhaps slightly above?
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 21:35

Its not about humbling, I am sharing what I know, so now you know what I see. I've also been painting for more than a little while and am more than happy to help out.

Table top is a highly subjective term. In my opinion, anything that is painted is table top, good bad or otherwise. many will disagree with me and that it is a 3 color standard, or must be based, or must have shading and/or highlighting.

My opinion is as long as you are happy with the end result, then that is good enough. I personally am never happy and always strive to be better in my painting and modeling. Which is why I don't have any fully painted armies. LOL. My main focus is competition, so what I put on the game table is not up to my normal standard, however I also know that what I put on the table will be handled often, knocked over, dropped on occasion or even stepped on, so it makes sense not to put a ton of time into my game pieces. they're going to get damaged sooner or later and keeping it simple enough to repair easily speaks for itself.
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 21:43

I gotcha, let me rephrase. if I did all my models like my kabalite warrior above, and you and I were to have a game, would you think to yourself it's a decent looking (or dare I say nice Looking even!) army?
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 22:00

I think they would be a good looking army.

There are 2 ways to look at an army, up close ( close to the face) and from a distance ( about arm's length). I judge my own models from about 8 inches from my eyes, where I can critique it thoroughly, kinda of like the airplane screeners at the airport Twisted Evil .

Most other people's army I look at from about 3 feet away as it is dispalyed on the table top, and if it has coherency, clean paint jobs and some simple basing, then it generally looks really good.


That being said, I am a highly critical judge, especially of my own work, and usually keep my opinions to myself unless asked.

One of the most important lessons I have learned over the years is to be honest and modest about what we do, offer the truth when we are asked, and keep our opinions to our self otherwise. It never fails when I go to a contest or a tournament there is some "Pro painter" who unsolicited offers his opinions about how I can get better or be as good as he is. Often, surprisingly, I am told said same painter is barred or not allowed to compete at the Golden Demons or Crystal brush or other top contests because they are too good and no one else has a chance. I've competed in these contests numerous times and they don't bar anyone, unless you bought your entry on ebay or some other service.

My goal is to help those who want to improve to get the knowledge and tools to improve. I can show you the road, but you gotta take the steps. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?    New to Dark Eldar, does this Archon look good?  I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 22:04

thanks for the feedback. I'm always seeking someone's honest opinion, even if it isn't what I want to hear. and I'd live to improve and be a great painter. I just don't know where to start.
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