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 To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question

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orestes85
Hellion
orestes85

Posts : 86
Join date : 2012-04-09
Location : Toronto Area

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PostSubject: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 13 2014, 17:52

Fellow Archons,

I've been having great success running Grotesque bodyguards for my Archon. I throw them in a raider and fly them as fast as I can at my opponent. The boat normally explodes and I have to run the rest of the way to his forces. And while doing so absorb a lot of shooting.

I've been running 4 because the grotesques don't really have an armor save I can count on. So I tend to lose a lot of wounds before getting into combat.

Most lists I see on the site run 3 grotesques instead of 4. Is this more optimal??? Can someone explain this choice for me?

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doomseer11b
Sybarite
doomseer11b

Posts : 304
Join date : 2012-10-09
Location : South Carolina

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 13 2014, 18:27

I tend to think in the same line as you. I always run 4, I used to run 3 but thats becuz I only had 3 models =) The way I see it, it reduces your chances drastically for having to take leadership checks, should it happen. And thats another 4 attacks at S6 or 7 on the charge. Most of the time, I run my HQ in this squad as it is the toughest one we have. So for me, I want more bodyguards to negate that slay the warlord VP. To me, 35 points is totally worth it.

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ligolski
Wych
ligolski

Posts : 557
Join date : 2012-12-02

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 14 2014, 18:30

I run 4, with a haemie and my archon in a raider...I get close I close the gap and beat things to death. Oh and my haemie and grots each have a liquifier for added fried fun! My grots usually go the distance for me and I love running them as a 4...I'd be sad to only run 3.

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Panic_Puppet
Wych
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Posts : 506
Join date : 2012-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 14 2014, 20:24

I've been running 3 in a raider with haemy and archon - partly due to just having the 3 models. But then, it's not really worked for me in a lot of games - the last game I've had has been the only one where I've really felt it's worked well. I think a fourth body would probably help, if I'm brutally honest.

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commandersasha
Sybarite
commandersasha

Posts : 401
Join date : 2012-12-26
Location : Wimbledon, London

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 16 2014, 01:43

I run Tooled-up Archon, 4 naked Grots, no upgrades: my thinking is: they are a 160point upgrade to the Archon to get her there; she doesn't need their gun, and they might cost her the charge. The Haem makes her even more of a fire magnet, she doesn't need that.

I haven't tried 3 Grots, but I would be concerned about losing those ablative wounds. If I were to play less than 1500, that's probably the first cut I would make.
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wanderingblade
Kabalite Warrior
wanderingblade

Posts : 225
Join date : 2013-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 16 2014, 04:46

When I use only 3, it's because the pips are squeaking so hard to get everything else in, that I can't afford the 4th.

I think I'd always get the Aberration upgrade simply to allow the Archon to duck challenges if needed.
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lcfr
Sybarite
lcfr

Posts : 456
Join date : 2013-10-20
Location : Toronto

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 16 2014, 16:38

I've played with units of 3 and 4, and the sacrifice I make in my list to get the 4th is definitely worth it. They can take a beating but having an extra 3 wounds gives them so much additional staying power. I run 4 with a Venom Blade wielding Aberration and a Liquifier Gun, accompanying a Haemonculus.
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DEfan
Sybarite
DEfan

Posts : 261
Join date : 2013-07-19
Location : Shakesville

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 17 2014, 07:43

Heh-heh, 2 units of 3(both with basic Haems) was my weapon of choice!! Archon can jump to the other squad for target saturation! One squad of 4 if points are limited.

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Brom
Wych
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Posts : 755
Join date : 2013-03-28

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 18 2014, 20:31

@orestes85 wrote:
Fellow Archons,

I've been having great success running Grotesque bodyguards for my Archon.  I throw them in a raider and fly them as fast as I can at my opponent.  The boat normally explodes and I have to run the rest of the way to his forces.  And while doing so absorb a lot of shooting.  

I've been running 4 because the grotesques don't really have an armor save I can count on.  So I tend to lose a lot of wounds before getting into combat.  

Most lists I see on the site run 3 grotesques instead of 4.  Is this more optimal???  Can someone explain this choice for me?
It depends.. at smaller pt levels like 1K ive managed just fine with 3. Higher than that I have used 3 and still with decent to good results but the whole unit gets dealt with more often, which is very rare to happen when they are taken full strength.

Having a farseer to buff them with 4++ and/or reroll saves is a world of difference btw, turning a shadowfield into the single most frustrating thing in the world for anyone to deal with.

Anyway 4 grots + aberration- vb is by far my best experience with 3 grots same loadout passable in a tight pinch WITH multiple other assault elements like a beast pack and wraith knight to pressure.
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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

Posts : 3717
Join date : 2011-07-13
Location : Santa Cruz, ca

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 03:55

I've only tried 3 a few times. Regretted it EVERY time. Four for this old archon  Twisted Evil 

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Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 06:02

Due to this thread, I just lost 21,50€ and need to spend still few hours by the painting table.

Hope you guys really are right Wink

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DEfan
Sybarite
DEfan

Posts : 261
Join date : 2013-07-19
Location : Shakesville

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 07:45

Trust us Vasara. And even if it backfires...well that's all part of our conniving Dark Eldary plan, mua-ha-ha, sucker.
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Billy912
Hellion
Billy912

Posts : 41
Join date : 2013-07-03
Location : Birmingham

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 26 2014, 18:34

I love Grotesques and run them in almost every game. Even in 1000pts I still try to squeeze in 4 if possible because they are just so effective so I'd definitely recommend taking four unless you could really use the extra 35pts but I never use upgrades.
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Crazy_Ivan
Wych
Crazy_Ivan

Posts : 515
Join date : 2012-04-10
Location : Wellingborough

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 26 2014, 19:02

I Normally have 4, sometimes an aberration with a flesh gauntlet if I have the points.

I have ran 7 in a tantalus before but that was just silly!
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Rancid blade
Kabalite Warrior
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Posts : 151
Join date : 2011-05-27

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 27 2014, 15:41

I run four. The point is to create a meat shield. You should take as much meat as can fit in a raider. Also, I pair them up with Lilith rather than an archon. She is so awesome.

If you want to create a DE deathstar try this. Put four grotesques and a haemonculi (two pain tokens) in a raider with aethersails. Lilith starts in a wrack squad next to the raider. In turn one she takes the wrack's token to the grotesque squad... Now they're fearless. This is a T5 unit with FNP, Furious Charge, Fearless, that can move up to 42" (an Lilith gets 11 attacks on the charge against MEQ)... boom!
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Unorthodoxy
Beating A Different Drummer
Unorthodoxy

Posts : 839
Join date : 2014-03-25
Location : Western Washington

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 27 2014, 16:40

I walk 7. Especially in NOVA terrain, this works fine for me. I put scissorhands on em, with Urien and they are quite hearty. I suppose i could crash the vehicle into the enemy, as some appear to be doing. It gets me there and charging one round sooner but the Raider sounds like a sacrificial lamb that wont be getting much other return and it limits the number you can take. i think I would rather take my chances on foot and use terrain and other models to advantage. That's just my take on it.

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PostSubject: Re: To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question   To 3 Grotesque or 4 Grotesque that is the Question I_icon_minitime

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