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 Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my

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Haemonculus
Hellion
Haemonculus

Posts : 74
Join date : 2013-02-09
Location : Your love canal

Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  Empty
PostSubject: Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my    Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 09 2014, 16:23

I need a Vets approval. I use the 3rd edition codex for my games.

Yep, I use still use it even in 6th. So I want am opinion from any classic Archons out there.
Ive been a vet DE player since this codex and still think this army book reflects them more fictionally. Ive been using this list for the past couple games.
Here it is:

The Cyber-Goths
Dracon Jockey- 106pts
Agoniser, Splinter pistol, Shadow Field, Combat Drugs

The Tortured- 229pts
Raider, Disintegrator, Night Shield, Nine Wyches, Wych Weapons, Splinter Pistols, Succubus, Agoniser, Plasma Grenades

The Emasculators- 125pts
Raider Squad, Disintegrator, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

The Flayed Ones- 125pts
Raider Squad, Disintegrator, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Dead Rose- 125pts
Raider Squad, Disintegrator, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Violation Squad- 125pts
Raider Squad, Disintegrator, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

The Broken- 125pts
Raider Squad, Disintegrator, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Screaming Locust- 188pts
Six Reavers, Reaver Jetbikes, Succubus, Agoniser, plasma grenades

Blood Batz Brotherhood- 146pts
Six Hellions, Succubus, Agoniser, plasma grenades

Dirty Dog- 105pts
Ravager, Three Dark Lances

Mr. Washington- 105pts
Ravager, Three Dark Lances
1504pts

OR

should I replace the Disintigrators with Dark Lances and Horrorfexes at no additional cost ?

Thanks for looking and please give me your advice.

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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my    Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 09 2014, 16:51

I really feel that this is an oddly built list. Seriously, who pays to upgrade old school Raiders to Dissies and *doesn't* put Dissies on Ravagers? Dissies make far more sense on Ravagers and Lances make more sense on Raiders due to the way each weapon system works.

Also, fielding old school Hellions? Egads! Seriously, those things are horrid.

You're also fielding old Reavers without Blasters? What do you expect the Reavers to do? Fly around and las rifle things to death?

And you're fielding Wyches without Blasters?

Gah! My old school sensibilities are in a spiral right now! I would advocate the following changes;
- Lances go on Raiders (Horrorfexes are sweet...but there is a lot in the game that ignores them nowadays)
- Dissies on Ravagers (drop pie plates in handfuls for max damage)
- I'd do the t.helm/Punisher combo on the Lord if you're going with drugs.
- Wyches should get Blasters, seriously, they're cheap and good.
- The Hellion squad is worse than useless, I'd drop them to save points
- Why are you not abusing the old retinue rules and fielding a retinue?
- Reavers need Blasters or they need to be cut
- I'd probably toss Blasters into all the Warrior squads too, honestly. S.rifles are useless.

Those are my quick thoughts.

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Haemonculus
Hellion
Haemonculus

Posts : 74
Join date : 2013-02-09
Location : Your love canal

Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my    Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 09 2014, 17:01

All VERY good points, Thor. I thought about the dissie thing and now that you memsion it, it makes much more sense to flipflop them onto the ravagers.

Punishers are AP3, now i know its good, but Wyches are better to deal with stupid terminators since the Dracon (who might be an Achon now with some points drops) ignores armor saves with the Agonisre and the succubus) The Reavers seemto be alright on the charge with sr4 and the Agoniser succubi, but maybe the old way of thinking should come back into play ( Drown the enemy in Darklight!)

Ill show you my other list

Alsowyches have wych weapons for half WS and no extra CC attack plus 4+invul in CC
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my    Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 09 2014, 17:59

@Haemonculus wrote:
Wyches are better to deal with stupid terminators since the Dracon (who might be an Achon now with some points drops) ignores armor saves with the Agonisre and the succubus)
Well, theoretically Aggies are AP3 - so they are of no use against Termies.
And Wyches *are* good versus Termies...if the goal is to tarpit them. I don not see much value in tossing your HQ into a tarpit situation.

@Haemonculus wrote:
The Reavers seemto be alright on the charge with sr4 and the Agoniser succubi, but maybe the old way of thinking should come back into play ( Drown the enemy in Darklight!)
If you're playing by the old dex...yes, i would support doing things the old way. We did them that way because that's what worked. Reavers are assault units and anti-infantry under the new dex. Under the old dex they were suicide anti-mech or were escorts for bike lords.

@Haemonculus wrote:
Alsowyches have wych weapons for half WS and no extra CC attack plus 4+invul in CC
Yes, I understand what wych weapons do.
I still submit that the retinue is superior because it's a retinue, and also submit that the Wyches shouldn't go and fight termies with the HQ attached.

_________________
Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  K93hWhs
Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  L1RsnGX
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Haemonculus
Hellion
Haemonculus

Posts : 74
Join date : 2013-02-09
Location : Your love canal

Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my    Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 09 2014, 18:03

Actually the old dex states that an Agoniser ''Always wounds on 4+ and ignores armor saves'' making it better then the new* Agoniser, so its just as useful as it used to be. But take a look at this. Oh and What about the Night shield? Its 15pts and I'm not sure if i should use it, ALTHOUGH it does get me out of some otherwise sticky situations.

The Cyber-Goths

Archon Jockey- 133pts
Agoniser, Splinter pistol, Shadow Field, Plasma Grenades, Combat Drugs

The Tortured- 244pts
Raider, Dark Lance, Night Shield, Dark Eldar Retinue, Five Incubi, Incubus Master, Splinter Pistol, Agoniser, Plasma Grenades

The Emasculators- 120pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

The Flayed Ones- 120pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Dead Rose- 120pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Violation Squad- 120pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

The Broken- 120pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Night Shield, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Screaming Locust- 170pts
Six Reavers, Two Blasters

Blood Batz Brotherhood- 108pts
Six Hellions

Dirty Dog- 120pts
Ravager, Three Disintegrators

Mr. Washington- 120pts
Ravager, Three Disintegrators

1495pts

The Hellions are a good distraction sometimes
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my    Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 09 2014, 18:19

@Haemonculus wrote:
Actually the old dex states that an Agoniser ''Always wounds on 4+ and ignores armor saves'' making it better then the new* Agoniser, so its just as useful as it used to be.
Agoniser, as a weapon, has been specifically ruled in the 6th edition codex to be an AP3 weapon.
All weapons now have an AP value, and old codices do not over rule that. Codex doesn't trump rulebook - most explicit rule trumps less explicit rule. The explicit rule is that weapons have an AP value, old dex has none listed, new rulebook lists AP value for wargear Agoniser - ergo Agoniser is an AP3 weapon.

If you guys play different that's fine. But that is the way the rules should work.
With an 'ignores all armor' Aggie then the Aggie is a fine tool. I will agree.

@Haemonculus wrote:
But take a look at this. Oh and What about the Night shield? Its 15pts and I'm not sure if i should use it, ALTHOUGH it does get me out of some otherwise sticky situations.
That depends on your playstyle. i never fielded them then, and think with premeasure there's less reason to field them now. They are quite good versus Tau, however. But that's about it.

@Haemonculus wrote:
The Tortured- 244pts
Raider, Dark Lance, Night Shield, Dark Eldar Retinue, Five Incubi, Incubus Master, Splinter Pistol, Agoniser, Plasma Grenades
The Incubi Master is a waste of points. He costs almost as much as another Incubi and isn't as good.

@Haemonculus wrote:
Screaming Locust- 170pts
Six Reavers, Two Blasters
That is definitely better.

@Haemonculus wrote:
The Hellions are a good distraction sometimes
For basically the same amount of points you could field a Ravager.
A Ravager is a good distraction all the time.
I even think it would be better at killing infantry than the Hellions - much less mech.

_________________
Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  K93hWhs
Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
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Haemonculus
Hellion
Haemonculus

Posts : 74
Join date : 2013-02-09
Location : Your love canal

Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my    Calling all Veteran Archons and Archites for my  I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 10 2014, 15:53

Okay so I played a game last night against my buddy with his Daemons.

I managed a victory with this list, though it was close (though to be fair it's always close whenever I fight Daemons)

Heres the List I used:
The Cyber-Goths

Dracon Jockey- 133pts
Agoniser, Splinter pistol, Shadow Field, Plasma Grenades, Combat Drugs

Haemonculus Crow- 40pts
Destructor

Abominations- 150pts
Ten Grotesques

The Tortured- 221pts
Raider, Dark Lance, Dark Eldar Retinue, Five Incubi, Incubus Master, Splinter Pistol, Agoniser, Plasma Grenades

The Emasculators- 105pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

The Flayed Ones- 105pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Dead Rose- 105pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Violation Squad- 105pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

The Broken- 105pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon

Screaming Locust- 195pts
Six Reavers, Two Blasters

Dirty Dog- 120pts
Ravager, Three Disintegrators

Mr. Washington- 120pts
Ravager, Three Disintegrators
1504pts

But i'm going to try this list out next:

The Cyber-Goths

Archon Jockey- 133pts
Agoniser, Splinter pistol, Shadow Field, Plasma Grenades

Haemonculus Crow- 45pts Haemonculus Murdock- 45pts
Destructor, Scissorhand Destructor, Scissorhand

Warped Nightmare- 63pts
Four Warp Beasts, Beastmaster

The Tortured- 221pts
Raider, Dark Lance, Dark Eldar Retinue, Five Incubi, Incubus Master, Splinter Pistol, Agoniser, Plasma Grenades

The Emasculators- 110pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon, Blaster

The Flayed Ones- 110pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon, Blaster

Dead Rose- 110pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon, Blaster

Violation Squad- 110pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon, Blaster

The Broken- 110pts
Raider Squad, Dark Lance, Five Kabalite Warriors, Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannon, Blaster

Screaming Locust- 195pts
Six Reavers, Two Blasters

Dirty Dog- 120pts
Ravager, Three Disintegrators

Mr. Washington- 120pts
Ravager, Three Disintegrator
1492pts

I keep Haemonculi because I love them in the fiction.
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