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 Dark Footdar, viable?

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Baron Pompadur
Slave
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PostSubject: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 02 2014, 23:37

Hello again guys! How are you?

This time i wanna talk about Dark Footdar. These army list/tactics is viable for a competitive game?

I think yes.

I dont like play with venomspam or raiderspam, but i cant play webway portal because i cant assault in the turn i come from reserve. So what i should do for win a competitive game?

Maybe Footdar is the answer!

The first thing a Dark Eldar player must know is: we live from cover and feel no pain. With the lot of ignore cover and spam of Str6-7 shots, we are totally frak. Our vehicules fall too fast, and when our vehicules explodes, our troops will dead fastly.

So, with that idea in mind, maybe the number of troops is the key. Lots of kabal warriors, maybe a pair of big blob warriors, 20 man with 2 cannon and sybarite will be fine. That is around 200 points per unit.
With so many people, the enemy need lot of fire to kill a simple unit.
Still we have lot of shots and good movility (not like venomspam but hey). We have good assault units, and fast, like beastmaster.

And finally, a footdar is good with some allies. Eldar sinergy very good with us, but another armys too, maybe Tau or Drop Pod Space Marines. Distractfull allies are VERY good.

And finally, in Purge the alien, we don have tons of kill-points!

So, foot army is viable? I think totally yes, but i want to see your opinion.

I will write some army list and some tactic later

PS: And again, sorry for my english!
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DingK
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 05:46

T3, 6+ armor save. Large blob is prone to get blasted with templates. A large blob is also tough to completely keep in cover. We don't outrange other shooty armies either, so they can fire at us before we get a chance to.

You're even worse off than out of a WWP.
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JackKnife01
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 10:43

Alas, footing it is not a option unless you are taking a Beast-Pack list. That actually loves to do that. Other than beast....potentially a Wrack-focused Army, even then...unlikely to live past turn 2-3. So for the most part we run and gun, because that is what we do. Sorry I could not be of more help and if I make no sense. Almost no sleep does that to me.
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ligolski
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 14:29

i run mostly foot stuff with maybe only 3-4 units mounted up. They key is army synergy and making sure you can deal with threats from a distance properly. I think our boats are death traps half the time so by only running a few with other very important threats they get ignored a lot.

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Elzadar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 16:27

@DingK wrote:
T3, 6+ armor save. Large blob is prone to get blasted with templates. A large blob is also tough to completely keep in cover. We don't outrange other shooty armies either, so they can fire at us before we get a chance to.

You're even worse off than out of a WWP.

I've tried the 20 warrior blob out of a WWP many times, and always do they seem to overwhelm the enemy and survive for the entire game. Honestly this unit is a very good objective grabber. Otherwise Talosses are good for footslogging, and Cronosses can maybe help your army out by giving them paintokens.

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DingK
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 18:23

@Elzadar wrote:
@DingK wrote:
T3, 6+ armor save. Large blob is prone to get blasted with templates. A large blob is also tough to completely keep in cover. We don't outrange other shooty armies either, so they can fire at us before we get a chance to.

You're even worse off than out of a WWP.

I've tried the 20 warrior blob out of a WWP many times, and always do they seem to overwhelm the enemy and survive for the entire game. Honestly this unit is a very good objective grabber. Otherwise Talosses are good for footslogging, and Cronosses can maybe help your army out by giving them paintokens.

Out of a WWP, I could see that working. The OP stated, however, that he didn't want to use those, on account of not being able to assault out of them.

Of course, one turn of shooting before you can assault still beats crossing the table on foot...
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Elzadar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 18:29

@DingK wrote:
@Elzadar wrote:
@DingK wrote:
T3, 6+ armor save. Large blob is prone to get blasted with templates. A large blob is also tough to completely keep in cover. We don't outrange other shooty armies either, so they can fire at us before we get a chance to.

You're even worse off than out of a WWP.

I've tried the 20 warrior blob out of a WWP many times, and always do they seem to overwhelm the enemy and survive for the entire game. Honestly this unit is a very good objective grabber. Otherwise Talosses are good for footslogging, and Cronosses can maybe help your army out by giving them paintokens.

Out of a WWP, I could see that working. The OP stated, however, that he didn't want to use those, on account of not being able to assault out of them.

Of course, one turn of shooting before you can assault still beats crossing the table on foot...

He doesn't need to assault though with a 20 men warrior unit

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TheMonkfish3000
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 20:13

20 Warriors coming out of a WWP to shoot up the enemy's face can be a pretty nasty surprise for anyone. Any other ways though? Wracks I suppose might be ok for footslogging but even with T4 they will go down pretty easy.
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Elzadar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 21:16

@TheMonkfish3000 wrote:
20 Warriors coming out of a WWP to shoot up the enemy's face can be a pretty nasty surprise for anyone. Any other ways though? Wracks I suppose might be ok for footslogging but even with T4 they will go down pretty easy.

And they're slow. I think reavers or hellions could serve you well, or is that not considered footslogging?

Incubi and Grotesques would also be a good call and this might be a bit controversial, but what about Mandrakes? They've got infiltrate.

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Alasard Tyrian
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 21:35

If it's any help, I was looking over some of the unit rules and something caught my eye that might have decent synergy with what your trying to do (Provided you have no objection to Reavers)

With skilled rider and moving at turbo boost that gain a 3+ cover save (which makes them pretty meaty) but this is half of it, combine this with the blade vines and grav talons, you have the potential to ride over you enemy before the assault phase and pin them, enabling you to assault with other units, free from a hail of fire from over watch (At least that is the theory, unless I've misinterpreted the rules)

Since your looking to use a foot slogging force being able to pin key units that could potentially gun you down before you make the assault would seem the way to go, that said with blasters they can also provide some anti vehicle utility, not to mention they can hold their own in close combat if needs be.

Any way if the idea isn't sound, maybe it gave you a few of your own
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03 2014, 23:22

Well pinning with LD 9 or 10 almost everywhere does not sound viable... it would need the help of our vehicles with torment grenade launchers and it won't still be a dependable tactic...
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Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2014, 01:19

Still no expert here but the way I've begun army building is with the basics. My concern for your footslogging army is troops. While sure, our troops die in explosive boats, they die even faster outside of them.

I don't view a WWP as a tactic here, because without a vehicle, you won't deliver it before your units come in.

If I were starting an army with this crazy idea, not that it won't work, I'd use the Baron attached to a beast pack and hellions as troops. In my mind, wyches and warriors and wracks will die before they accomplish anything without a transport.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2014, 04:40

Hmmm... it really depends... if you play footdar you have so many wounds on the table that it would be difficult to effectively cripple the army as a whole. I guess that Orks and IG would have no trouble clearing huge chunks each turn. And we would need to pay dearly for LD 9 champs to prevent our blobs running away after taking 5 wounds...
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TheMonkfish3000
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2014, 08:03

@aurynn wrote:
Hmmm... it really depends... if you play footdar you have so many wounds on the table that it would be difficult to effectively cripple the army as a whole. I guess that Orks and IG would have no trouble clearing huge chunks each turn. And we would need to pay dearly for LD 9 champs to prevent our blobs running away after taking 5 wounds...

Even with a lot of models they're still T3, and not as cheap as other armies that run foot hordes. Compare 'Nids or Guard, who can have 2 men for every DE Warrior or Wych, or Orks,who are T4 and still a bit cheaper. Footslogging Warriors are better than footslogging Wyches though.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2014, 10:35

Well nids cannot punish MCs with 40 poison shots if they get too close... :-D
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DingK
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2014, 19:07

@aurynn wrote:
Well nids cannot punish MCs with 40 poison shots if they get too close... :-D

No need to get close if those Nids have enough to shoot you with from afar, or swarm you with Gaunts. Can't shoot when you're in assault, and Kabalites are not used for their CC capabilities...
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2014, 20:39

Shooty nids? That would be interesting. :-)
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04 2014, 23:18

They have some shooty creatures, mainly Hive Guard.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 05 2014, 03:23

Nothing that can threaten 60-120 dark footdar woundcount. :-)
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DingK
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 05 2014, 20:42

Unfortunately, most other armies do have something to threaten that. Especially if you can't zip into cover with 12-18 inch movement.

I'm not saying DE units on foot don't work, but not a whole army of them.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 05 2014, 20:54

I believe this concept is a "funlist". Not a Comp list, so yea. There are builds that will just table this, but most of the games would indeed be fun. :-)

The painting on the other hand will not be fun. :-D
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 06 2014, 00:37

Well... if you are going to go foot you are going to want a "distractionfexe." Large tough monsters that can take a pounding and act as bullet sponges for your army. Talos and Chronos are your friends here. Large units of Grotz and or beasts with wracks making up the troops.
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Baron Pompadur
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 06 2014, 22:51

Okay, few days that i can't see the forum but now i have read all the answers. Thanks to all.

Firstly, i'll try to do a competitive list with the idea of FootDar.

I think the idea is viable but need lot of work.

Big blobs of warriors are good but they need something that can give them supervivence. Some hemonculus will be fine for FNP but it isn't enought. So, you need something more. Something big, something with big destruction capacity.
Talos and Cronos can do this job half but not completly. Talos dont have enought destruction capacity, and Cronos dont have enought range to do damage. So we can discard these two.

Beast Pack is very good. With Sathonyx are very very good choice. And with allied farseer the beast pack is a GREAT choice, very very great choice.
Im thinking to get two units of beast. One with Sathonyx and the other one with Baharroth or Karandras.
With Baharroth, we have hit and run and some attacks of fp3. Grenades and Baharroth can follow the beast.
With Karandras, we can infiltrate the unit, and have some attacks of FP2 with high strength and with "Hunt Monster" (i cant remember the name) have lot of chance to kill riptides or wraithknight. But Karandras are slower than beast pack.

If we got Eldars allies, we can choose a big blob of 20 guardians with 2 bright lances to complement the warriors. And some other stuff that can distract the enemy, Wraithknight.

Wraithknight can get cover to our warriors, have speed and have good weapons to shot. They are perfect for us.

With that things in mind, we can make an army list with lot of stuff, great shots and great close combat.

Now, Eldars aren't the unique allies we can get. Yes, they can the uniques can capture objetives, but thats not all in a game.

I need to think more about it, but perhaps some unit of any army we come right to us.
There comes to my mind the following: Riptide + Apocalypses. Noob bikers. Drop pods marines. I dont know, just i need think about it.

So, really, i think Dark Footdar can do lot of things in competitive environment.

Users like "OrdoSean" do very well with dark footdar. Nick Rose win a big tournament with him Eldars footdar (okey, they are eldar, but you know my point right?).

So, what do you think?
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 07 2014, 02:32

I think that the things you chose to include are for a 3000 list. :-) But seriously now, please try. I am very much interested how it goes. As for allies. Wouldnt wraithguard or their alternative be better than guardians to complement warrior blobs? Also look at that christmas wraith themed dataslate. They have some rules that would complement the army well. If I remember correctly.
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Bugs_N_Orks
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Footdar, viable?   Dark Footdar, viable? I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 07 2014, 14:55

I'll be taking this list to an 1850 GT this weekend, and for added footdar benefit Ordosean will be there too (I'm not sure whether he decided to go with DE/E or E/DE though).

Baron
5 Warriors
5 Warriors
20 Warriors, 2 SCs, Sybarite
5 BMs, 10 Khymera, 6 Razorwings
5 BMs, 10 Khymera, 6 Razorwings
Talos, TL-Liquifier
Talos, TL-Liquifier

Farseer, Jetbike, both runes, Spear, Shard, Stone
3 Windriders
3 Windriders
8 Warp Spiders
Wraithknight
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