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 500 point starter army (Escalation League)

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Stormthroe
Slave
Stormthroe

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PostSubject: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 24 2014, 23:42

Hey all!

Here is my 500 point list for an upcoming escalation league. Mind you its based off of the contents of the Battleforce, with a few additions like an HQ and the all too important transports. So without further ado:

HQ
Haemonculus Ancient
-Venomblade
-Liquifier Gun
-Shattershard
-110

Troops
9xWarriors
-Blaster
-Raider
-Flickerfields
-Splinter Racks
-176

5xWyches
-Haywire Grenades
-Venom
-Dual Cannons
-Nightshields
-135

Fast Attack
3xReaver Jetbikes
-Heat Lance
-78

Total: 499

This is what I came up with based on any tactics I've read between here and Miniwargaming.com, as well as being able to look at the codex. Any advice, comments, or critiques are welcome, and this is the first list I've thrown together. I have no models as of yet and a month or so to complete a list of this size so that I can participate. I figure knowing what I'd like to play with gives me a good goal to finish painting in that time.

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"Some are afraid of the darkness that surrounds us in this world. I choose instead to be frightened, not of the darkness we can see, but that which dwells in the deepest hidden confines of the minds of those we walk by everyday."
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thedarkling
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 10:57

Personally i wouldn't take the witches i would go for another warrior unit in a venom i find they perform better.
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Wych
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 16:11

Depends on what's across the table. If I see a wave serpent I absolutely want those wyches.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 16:32

My first thought is he's spending too much money in relatively minor upgrades (Ancient, Shattershard, N.shields on Venom, extra Warrior bodies, s.racks) that, if all cut, could buy him an additional pile of Warriors in a Venom that would accomplish what all those upgrades do (killing infantry) only do it better, and with an additional scoring unit on the table, and also with more target saturation for the opponent.

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Stormthroe
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 17:00

Thanks all! Thor, I understand what you're saying with the fact that I upgraded a little heavy. The reason I put Ancient on the haemonculus is I didn't want to give up a slay the warlord, because at such a low points game, its tough to get a survivable HQ. The shattershard was honestly only because I needed to fill 15 points. Any suggestions?

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 17:28

@Stormthroe wrote:
Thanks all!  Thor, I understand what you're saying with the fact that I upgraded a little heavy.  The reason I put Ancient on the haemonculus is I didn't want to give up a slay the warlord, because at such a low points game, its tough to get a survivable HQ.
I agree it is tough to get a survivable HQ.
I do not think the solution to that problem is to pay more points into a slot that will do basically the same amount of killing either way.
I think the solution, at 500 points, is to just table your foe - I personally believe at 500 points that DE are the most powerful codex with only Orks and maybe IG even able to come close to competing with us.

@Stormthroe wrote:
The shattershard was honestly only because I needed to fill 15 points.  Any suggestions?
Suggestions other than the one I already made and just a suggestion for 15?
Um...blaster? I'd add a blaster.
But, really, I'd say my initial suggestion was what I saw as the most competitive solution.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 17:33

@Thor665 wrote:
Um...blaster? I'd add a blaster.
But, really, I'd say my initial suggestion was what I saw as the most competitive solution.

The thing is, at 500 points you don't come up with a way to 'fill' anything. You 'fill' at 1850. At 500 having an odd 15 points means you dismantle the whole list and reassess from the ground up. You shouldn't 'fill' with nearly 5% of your points. And at 500 that's what 15 practically is (okay, I suppose it's really like 3.some numbers - but the core value idea is still there, it's a solidly large amount of your total points - value it accordingly. At 2000 it would be 60 points - you wouldn't use 60 points as 'filler' in a 2000 list, you wouldn't leave it aside, because it's 60 points. Same thing for 15 at 500.)

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Stormthroe
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 22:28

Question I came up with in the rewrite. Where would you put your HQ then? I don't want my warlord just sitting off doing nothing if all you're saying is to spam venoms. It just seems like he'd have no real purpose if he can't hop a transport. From the looks of the book do I just load him up with a small group of trueborn in a seperate venom?


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"Some are afraid of the darkness that surrounds us in this world. I choose instead to be frightened, not of the darkness we can see, but that which dwells in the deepest hidden confines of the minds of those we walk by everyday."
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Nappen
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 26 2014, 02:13

Stormthroe...funny, I am about to start an escalation league, too...and also frequent MWG Smile

Where are you located?

I am thinking to stay as fluffy as I can...not worried about winning, but may try pure cult, coven and Kabal lists...

I have never played 500 point lists either, so this should be interesting.

Given you restrictions of staying mostly with the battleforce contents...hmmm.

I wouldn't bother with the ancient. Living on the boat with the warriors, he is very unlikely to get into Close Combat anyway. I do love the liquifier gun though.

I would put NS on your gunboat. FF are a +/- kind of thing. Unless you are playing something that ignores cover you have a jink anyway. But if you are using it as a gun boat, against any army with 24 inch or less range that 6 inches is nice...particularly against those pesky 12 inch melta guns who now have a 3 inch melta range.

So, if you have no other models to play with you could do a couple of things.

One is to put your haeme in cover somewhere and let him hide and take pot shots at folks which would give you the points to do the following.

Haeme with hexrifle and venom blade...yeah, the hexrifle isn't great, but it is a sniper weapon and when it workes on a multie wound model, it is hysterical. The VB is just incase, though you really don't want him in CC...but at 500 points, he is likely to do okay.

10 Warriors with a blaster and DL, in a raider with DL, NS, aethersails and splinter racks. It gives you some additional AT that you are lacking if you go against eldar or IG. You could also drop the DL for a SC and use the 15 points for something else.

5 Wyches with HWG in a venom with Dual SC

three reavers with HL.

if you drop the DL for a SC then you have 15 points to play with. If you drop the VB on the Haeme you could add Cluster caltrops to the reavers, or you could give the raider FF and the haeme a LG too.

At 500 points, what you see will be really army dependent and depends on what other rules are in effect for the league.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 26 2014, 07:36

@Stormthroe wrote:
Question I came up with in the rewrite.  Where would you put your HQ then?  I don't want my warlord just sitting off doing nothing if all you're saying is to spam venoms.  It just seems like he'd have no real purpose if he can't hop a transport.  From the looks of the book do I just load him up with a small group of trueborn in a seperate venom?
That's a difficult question to ask in a vacuum. It would depend on what I was running for both the HQ and the army.

But, yes, he would be in a transport supporting an appropriate unit. Be it a Haem w. Wracks or a Blaster Archon w. Warriors/Trueborn and whether he was in a Venom/Raider. But, no, I owuld not advocate just wandering him around on foot alone. At 500 points you can't afford to have your HQ dorking around doing nothing, he needs to help bring the pain.

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Nappen
Kabalite Warrior
Nappen

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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 26 2014, 13:30

The best thing about a haeme is the pain token he can give to wyches...they might survive.

You could put him in a raider with 9 wyches and then when they jump off he can fly around on the raider shooting things...giving the wyches the token. Or he could jump off with them to absorb overwatch (depending on army and target).

My suggestion about putting him in cover and shooting at stuff was based on your desire to keep him alive. There he could go to ground and have FNP, and would have to be low target priority or your other units will crush the oppponent.
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Stormthroe
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 26 2014, 17:51

Nappen, I'm in Pittsburgh at a smaller gaming store near my college. I'm just rewriting as of now here's what I've come up with so far.

HQ

Haemonculus (w/ Venom Blade, Liquifier Gun)
-65

Troops

9xWarriors (w/ Blaster)
Raider (w/ Nightshields)
-166

5xWarriors (w/ Blaster)
Venom (w/ extra cannon)
-125

Fast Attack

5x Reavers (w/ Heat Lance)
-144

Total: 500

I don't really like this rewrite but it does make better use of points. The only issue I'm having with it now is I want to add another unit, but no matter how I work the points around it always either has too many spare points or is slightly over points limit. Looking back over it, I'd say its because of my bias towards trying to stick to the battleforce as much as possible. Here is another list at 500 I made that has a few more kits included that I find more powerful.

HQ

Haemonculus (w/ Venom Blade, Liquifier Gun)
-65

Troops

4xWracks
Venom (w/ extra cannon)
-105

5xWarriors (w/ Blaster)
Venom (w/ extra cannon)
-125

5xWyches (w/ Haywire Grenades)
Venom (w/ extra cannon)
-125

Fast Attack

3x Reavers (w/ Heat Lance)
-78

Total: 498 points

I think the second seems more competitive though I'm going to have to spend more to prepare it. Sit the Haemonculus in with the Wracks in their venom, everything else is pretty self explanatory. My only concern is there isn't an extreme amount of Anti-Tank weaponry, but I think the Wych unit can hit most of that while the Blaster and Heat Lance can take pot shots. Thoughts?


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"Some are afraid of the darkness that surrounds us in this world. I choose instead to be frightened, not of the darkness we can see, but that which dwells in the deepest hidden confines of the minds of those we walk by everyday."
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Nappen
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 26 2014, 18:35

Mine are the same as yours, not sure about AT. But I just don't know how much armor you will see at 500 points. Playing with army builder, I can see a guard or SM unit with three armored vehicles pretty easily.
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Stormthroe
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PostSubject: Re: 500 point starter army (Escalation League)   500 point starter army (Escalation League) I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 26 2014, 18:55

I agree. This is all in hopes of restarting the game, I haven't played since fourth edition! So this is all new to me

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