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 Asdrubael Vect?

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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 05:50

I seem to have made a mistake. So it's 12" movement to shoot 2 weapons at full BS?

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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 25 2014, 18:00

For Fast Skimmers, yes. The DE exception being Ravagers, which have the Aerial Assault rule.
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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 19 2014, 05:29

Update: after playing my first game (and thinking about the experience, doing additional research online and asking questions), I've come to realise that threat bubbles are more important than going first, because making use of threat bubbles appropriately, increases your chances of taking First Blood, preserving your numbers and wiping out the enemy. This article, written by Thor really helped me to understand this idea better.

I do still worry about alpha-strikes such as the Belial, Mordrak or Drop-Pod 'bomb' -- but these things are unavoidable and shouldn't be too hard for Dark Eldar to deal with, in the subsequent shooting phase.
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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 20 2014, 00:15

Going first or going second is all to often situation.  Although I feel the majority of the times the advantage is in going first.  I agree with Thor, Vect is less about having the first turn, but the mind games associated with the improved seized initiative. If you are already going first, Vect does nothing with respect to your deployment and their chance to seize initiative.

In high point games 1750+, i don't see vect's cost as a detriment he preforms well against everything but things with 2+ armor save other than that he is an absolute MEQ killer. (Hell, he has a fair chance to kill a wraith knight the same round he charges.... providing he doesn't blow up from a S10 overwatch shot and failed shadow field roll).

That aside, I think I've been overlooking the dias.  By no means is it a bargain; however, 13av all around, fast open-topped (read: assault vehicle), jink and skimmer for 200 points is not too outrageous for what it does.

That said, with the the growing prevalence of high shot # of S6 weapons, the dias is becoming more attractive as S6 cannot hurt it. Wave serpent spam with the (what is becoming default) Scatter Laser Shuriken Cannon config must use its serpent shield to attack just to have a chance to put a glancing hit on the dais. The tau twin linked smart missile system & plasma rifles can't hurt the dais. Space Marines/imperials Thunderfire cannon, bolters of all varieties useless. Even the Hell Turkey's shooting attach does not scratch the dais. These things typically turn DE vehicles into fireworks yet are mostly ineffectual against the dias.

The biggest gripes I've seen with the dias is (a) the must be full issue, (b) no aerial assault and (c) no vehicle upgrades. (a) its pretty much the safest bet in the DE codex and Forge word to deliver a assault element to where it needs to go sooooooo filling it to capacity not really a bad thing. (b) meh, either you disembarking you assault unit which requires you to move so few inches that you can still shoot all the weapons or your going to fast to shoot any (i.e., that turns one and two; if they haven't killed it by turn three, things are probably not working out to well for them). Plus the times you need that extra mileage its because your shooting for the kill point, that lone surviving SM bike hiding behind a building praying for a dark light shot to explode its head and end its misery. (c) vehicle upgrades would be nice... but remember how i said it was not a bargain... it would be with vehicle upgrades. I don't think I would be able to stop laughing if i could field the dias with a shock prow and aether sails (might not win games, but it would be funny). The chief upgrade i would want on this expensive number is the flicker field; however, the need for the flicker field is substantially mitigated by jink-- Thx 6th.

In games of 1850+ or 2000+ the dias looks very appealing because (1) it offers a level of durability not otherwise available to the DE or expected from the DE (2) responds well with meta's increasing push towards S6 multi-shot weapons and (3) can (generally) deliver that assault element safely.

Anyway, its food for thought and Vect opens up the dias as an option. Maybe after I try it out a few times i'll post later and report on whether or not it performed well.





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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 22 2014, 21:41

I've been running Vect at 1850 with the Dias and 9haywire witches for about 10 games now.

He is currently unbeaten, and roughly half of the battles have ended in tabling.

The Dias is worth every point. It reliably delivers one of the most horrific maniacs in the galaxy to the target of your choice plus the best anti-tank squad in the game to wherever you need them.

One of the things I like most about it is that no-one expects a DE transport to be hard to kill so they just keep shooting at it (lol!), wasting shots on the small chance they have of killing it. By the end of turn 2 they have much worse problems to deal with anyway.

I hope they don't mess up our fantastic army next codex Twisted Evil 
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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 23 2014, 05:30

Supposedly due to the change of wording in the most recent FAQ (basically removing the restriction on the Dias) you can actually upgrade the Dias like a regular Raider now, i'm much too lazy to find it but the article is somewhere here in The Dark City.

Dias Shock Prow...the dirtiest vehicle in the game, AV13(possibly AV16), jinking, turbo boosting, Aether Sailing, chain snaring maybe?

WAIT...can it chain snare and shock prow in the same turn? and chain snares hits every unit that it passes over.

Edit: never mind it would have to tank shock the units out of the way so it wouldn't chain snare them but you can still snap shot out of it, so maybe splinter racks?

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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 23 2014, 05:53

Inspired by our another post (see 'Beaststar for 7th Edition'), I agree with the opinion that Vect would be a hero in a beastpack. He brings Fearless (essential for beasts), Plasma Grenade (also essential for non-penalty charge), Preferred Enemy (RE-ROLLs!), and may work as a 2++ wall for 1-2 turns before the charge of beasts (though not sure of such an use personally, due to a risk of Warlord Kill). According to ordosean (see a recent ATC post in Realspace Raids), Vect's lack of mobility seems not a big problem if we play properly. Any thoughts?

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Last edited by lelith on Wed Jul 23 2014, 06:00; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I've changed some typos and made clear the references)
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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 23 2014, 08:55

His plasma grenade does not confer to the unit so the beasts are still charging at I1 in/through terrain. Also, he's not fast enough to stay at the front of the Beasts to act as a "tank". In the Shooting phase however you can run him further to the front line of the Khymera

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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 23 2014, 14:17

I have run him in 5th and 6th and find regardless of bodyguards, the first save he takes - 50% of the time he just dies... I have no idea why!

My most recent outing with him was the Australian team championships - ran him with 4 blood brides (6th ed)

Game 1 vs sisters of battle - venom dies, brides die, he charges an immolator, manages a pen with haywire then dies to the first shadowfield save from a multi melta

Game 2 vs Daemons - kills 8 flesh hounds, kairos fateweaver, great unclean one all without taking a wound

Game 3 vs necron scarab farm - kills 3 spiders but fails the first save he has to make in combat from a warscythe lord and dies

Game 4 vs IG parking lot - charges a battery of wyverns, fails to hit with haywire grenade then dies to the first las cannon shot

Game 5 vs whitescars - kills karn, command squad and 3 sarges before failing 4 saves (shadowfield and 3 ghostplate) and then failing 4 FNP

Game 6 vs elder - dead to the first shot from warpsiders...

T3 sucks!

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 23 2014, 16:22

@1++ wrote:
His plasma grenade does not confer to the unit so the beasts are still charging at I1 in/through terrain. Also, he's not fast enough to stay at the front of the Beasts to act as a "tank". In the Shooting phase however you can run him further to the front line of the Khymera

Thank 1++. I was confused of PGL (which works for all models) and Plasma Grenade (only for himself) as I've used the former for the most of the time Embarassed Anyhow, the pure DE army composed of Vect+Baron looks still attractive for me Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 26 2014, 08:53

FYI. I've finished a 1000-pt game with my friend right now. I brought a melee army with Vect, Talos, Beasts, Wyches, and Incubi (with Venoms for the latter two). I seized the initiative thanks to Vect.

In T2, Vect, 1 Khymera, and 1 Razorwing Flock charged into Commissar and 19 Guardsmen (my other beasts were killed at T1 by his mass of fire). In T3, Yarrik also participated in the battle after killing my 4 Incubi at once (it was horrible to see he succeeded in every To Hit/To Wound rolls vs Incubi).

However, in T4, though all beasts were dead, Vect killed everyone: Yarrik, Commissar, and lots of guardsmen! This made my friend surrender immediately. He lost only 1 wound at that time.

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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 28 2014, 22:14

I havent played a competitive game in almost 2 years without Vect. He is absolutely awesome. He usually hangs out in a large beast pack, or at times jumps into large 20 man warrior squads. He is a great force multiplier and deterrent, as well as his ability to play with opponents minds pre game.

As far as the go first is worse or better. There is a lot of data that shows that going second is the better choice in competitive play. Eldar especially benefit from going second with tons of speedy troops in the form of jetbikes. But I will say that it has a lot to do with general army styles and many people following mantras they see on the internet in regards to play style and army list building.

But if you find yourself building a style of list that would prefer to go first then vect certainly can help you. The kinds of armies that want to go first are mainly fast fragile assault armies. They want to go first in order to close with the opponent to deny them multiple rounds of shooting into their combat forces. Fast assault armies can get into combat turn 2 most of the time meaning going second hampers how much of a force you have left to fight that assault. Assault armies are less able to deploy back deep out of range and line of sight because their main strategy is closing as fast as possible, and no matter how far back they start the reality is they have to actually cross the ground no matter what.

Thus vect helps this style of list in several ways. One he is good in combat and fearless meaning your unit wont flee. He amplifies the members of his squad so even if they are reduced in numbers they will still be effective. He ensures that even if you lose the roll to go first you have a pretty healthy chance of going first anyway. This chance also weighs on your opponents mind and can lead to them giving you first anyway, an idea that can be further amplified by the inclusion of some eldar jetbikes in your list which will have your opponent considering the dangers of giving you second turn and allowing you to steal victory from the jaws of defeat. Add in baron for a better roll to go first and your combat army will be smiling.
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PostSubject: Re: Asdrubael Vect?   Asdrubael Vect? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 29 2014, 07:30

I have played my last competitive turnements with Vect. Vect and Nightshields is both something I love more for each game.

Now Vect also gives my Guardian blob Fearless, so thats that aswell, and it also makes them a harder target to assault.

Sure against some armys he will fall short, and I could just have given the Farseer an 30pts upgrade with the Anaris and got something that would have given me more, but he gives me alot against list I strugle. Then thinking of Drop pod lists these days, his Blast and Ap3 mace is amazing against those marines. He can take down 1 group a round while my guardians finish up something els.

But ye, vect is expensive, and playing below 1750pts I just cant justify him tho

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