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40kScribe
Hellion
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PostSubject: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15 2014, 20:04

Hi All! My friends and I all play very competitive lists, so cheese is totally 'in' where I play. As a newbie (to Dark Eldar -- I've been playing 40k for many years), I've been doing my research and came up with the following list. C&C appreciated Smile

Dark Eldar H.Q.: 345
- Asdrubael Vect
- Baron Sathonyx

Dark Eldar Elites: 350
- 5x Kabalite Trueborn + 4x Blasters + 1x Venom
- 5x Kabalite Trueborn + 4x Blasters + 1x Venom

Dark Eldar Troops: 710
- 5x Kabalite Warriors + 1x Blaster + 1x Venom
- 5x Kabalite Warriors + 1x Blaster + 1x Venom
- 5x Kabalite Warriors + 1x Blaster + 1x Venom
- 5x Kabalite Warriors + 1x Blaster + 1x Venom
- 5x Wyches + 5x Haywire Grenades + 1x Hekatrix with a Venom Blade + 1x Raider [Joined by A.’ Vect]
- 5x Wyches + 5x Haywire Grenades + 1x Venom

Dark Eldar Fast Attack: 153
- 2x Beastmasters + 4x Razorwing Flocks [Joined by ‘the Baron’]
- 2x Beastmasters + 3x Razorwing Flocks

Dark Eldar Heavy Support: 290
Voidraven Bomber
Voidraven Bomber

1848/1850

I feel like this army could work (based on all the readings and YouTube videos I've been watching), although it's weak against anyone who brings a lot of air assets. I'm considering trying to fit in two units of Wracks -- one to sit on an objective and be ignored, and the other to operate a Quad Gun.

The general idea here:
- the H.Q. units help me seize first turn, everything pushes forward and I aim to take First Blood. If their Warlord is in a unit that I can take out, I'll go for it.
- The Wyches are my anti-tank, as well as the Voidravens -- the Voidravens are also there to hunt other flyers. I'm also thinking that maybe I should switch out a squad of Kabalite Warriors for either a third squad of Wyches, or a Ravager, to go tank-hunting
- The Beastmasters are there to act as tarpits and can help hunt down Terminators and TEQ.

Not sure how this will play out, but I'm trying to keep all my bases covered. Like I said -- I only have two anti-air units..
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MurDok
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 04:30

Trust me when i say that 2 anti air is usually the max lol. i am tempted to try this list out myself, bravo and welcome.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 04:40

Thank you -_- I've played 40k for many years (but skipped 5th edition). I studied HARD how to get back into this hobby and have developed different (painstaking) methods to buildings lists, so I appreciate your compliment Smile

That being said, if anyone has any criticism it's definitely welcome! Smile My plan is to run the most vile, evil, stinky-cheese, badass army possible -- but only ever field it on a 5+, so that my friends will get a feeling of "Is there going to be a Dark Eldar raid??? There's a 1/3 chance....!! It might happen!"

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 07:00

I'm mildly iffy on the list and think it will perform poorly against a wide number of enemy builds, there are a wide variety of small reasons for this but allow me to just touch on a few of the big ones as I take it you're still a bit new to DE.

I'll also preface this with, a lof of optimal DE building tends to require learning of the specific build you are building, so one player's tournament winning army build can look pretty iffy to another DE general, and this is an effect apparently exacerbated by the DE in particular compared to other armies, though I also personally suspect a lot of it depends on what they drew at the tourney as there are a number of power builds we are OP versus, and vice versa due to the paper/rock/scissors of the current meta.

I'll also toss out, just on a random cheese note, that probably, if anything DE do can be considered 'cheese' then an Eldar ally is, by definition, what is needed, as that very much ups our game at the moment...so does a Revenant, natch, depending on what level of the gakky current ruleset your group is playing under and what house rules are in effect to try to fix the derptastic nature of competitive play at the moment.

I'll just assume 'no Superheavies'

In any case, your list;

My three issues with the list

1. Vect in 1850. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a close combat machine (more or less) and he helps you make sure you have first turn. The problem is...well, firstly you don't have an alpha strike army (I'll get to that in point two) and secondly, he costs an arm and a leg. Seriously, you could buy a kitted out Voidraven for what you're paying for him. You could buy multiple units. Is he worth it? Especially since all you can afford him with is a few Wyches who are, most assuredly, better built to go hunting a tank than engaging any actual infantry force of note? It might make sense if your army was built around Alpha strike, but...

2. Your army is built to perform an alpha strike...but isn't built to perform an alpha strike. ...I should probably clarify that. Okay, so the game starts, and with the odd 300+ points you've put into making sure you get first turn you manage to get first turn, huzzah! Now, let's just toss out a totally crazy build idea, let's say the enemy has...oh...some transports and tanks, and doesn't deploy on the edge of his deployment zone. How much damage can you inflict on that army? (Hint: zero)

So...now your opponent gets a turn, with a totally uninjured force at his command, all for the penalty of...making a rush list that lacks assault punch have to move closer to him. I am sure he weeps mightily over that. Now, yes, if his army is built based around Riptides or has a lot of infantry already exposed, then yur life is on easy street - and maybe your meta is different than mine. But, literally, on Turn 1, if your opponent deploys in a way that isn't stupid as hell, you could have limited to no actual targets depending on what his list is. That worries me. Your long range anti-tank doesn't even show up till turn 2 at the earliest, meaning it is meaningless for long range anti-tank. Which means, either your meta better be very MC/infantry heavy and tank light, or you are making a grievous error in your army build.

3. The purpose of the Void Ravens is to shoot down enemy fliers. They will show up before any enemy flyers show up since your plan is to get first turn...so, the enemy flyers likely get to shoot at Voidravens first. (Hint: Voidravens are not feared far and wide for their ability to absorb damage).

4. Beasts pair well with Baron because he gives them stealth and grenades. Their purpose is to be hard to kill, absorb incoming fire, and hit into assault via an overwhelming amount of high initiative attacks to wipe units. You have chosen to play them as smaller units, denied one the ability to get stealth, and also halved their impact on assaulting, and with one of them perhaps robbed it of its high initiative benefit as well. All for the benefit of...additional charge possibility...in an army list drowning in splinter cannon shots meaning that killing multiple small infantry units should be the one thing the list does really, really well. I don't grok.

--------------------------------

That's my take in a nutshell. The quick solutions that spring to mind are;

1. Personally, I'd drop Vect. I don't think he helps the list and is too expensive for it. You could also drop Baron Sathypants instead, but then you would want to redo our FA slots to something different. Both of them are decent HQs, but I actually think they play differently in how they try to get first turn (Vect's play is to aim for second, but have the ability to claim first to force the opponent into a weaker defensive deployment via fear of being seized, whereas Sathypants is about trying to ensure first or about trying to ensure second, the only way I'd ever run both of them together was if I really wanted to go second (which isn't a bad strategy, depending how you build the list). I think Vect pairs better with Voidravens for what they do, but for Beasts Satypants is needed...it's a bit of a personal debate there.

2. Again, a lot of this depends on local meta. As I said, if mech really isn't much of a thing, then you are possibly spot on with what you are doing. If you are not, then I'd readjust either the first strike idea, or the army list. But either the strategy or the build is likely off here.

3. Personally, I prefer to try to outplay flying armies on the ground. FMCs are not an issue for us at all, and most flying lists we can work around or outfight the rest of the army and just weather what they're tossing our way. Spammed Heldrakes and lucky Croissant wings are the only ones I personally kind of dread nowadays, but both are still survivable, especially in objective games - which most games are. I'll admit I personally find 3x Ravagers to be overall superior, especially in an alpha strike mentality, and they cost about the same as 2 VRs. Yeah, 4 voidlances are good, but are they really better than 9 dark lances? Meh...really, only against flyers.

4. I'd combine the Beast unit. I really see no reason to separate them into two and see every reason to combine them.

My quick thoughts.
Thor.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 07:44

Wow!

Thor, I want to start out by commending you on this OUTSTANDING analysis and critique! As a university student, I have to say that it truly resembles an essay worthy of a short essay (amazing structuring.. nerdy comment on my part, but it's worth applauding)! So first off, I want to thank you for putting so much effort and attention into reviewing my army list! It's much more than I could have asked for. Now onto the discussion at hand..


About Issue #2:
I was wondering about anti-tank capabilities and honestly thought that I had enough with my two units of Wyches with haywire grenades for the alpha-strike, but as I said I am worried about armour. Would you say that a third unit of Wyches (replacing one unit of Kabalite Warriors) would be sufficient to pop open at least one transport for First Blood? The way I imagine it is: say I go up against a mech army, would it not suffice to simply use my three (but currently only two..) Wyche units to crack open a transport, then use my Kabalites to mow down whatever comes crawling out? Ideally however, I thought I could at least crack open two (maybe three, if I add a unit of Wyches?) transports -- but perhaps this is wishful thinking, and so either more Wyches and/or Ravagers are needed..

I understand your concern about having Voidravens as anti-tank. To be honest they're mostly for anti-air -- but again, I see your point. That being said, I have also considered replacing both Wych units (as well as a unit of Kabalite Warriors) with 3x Ravagers for long-range anti-AV; I went for Wyches based on the premises that they could double-up as close-combat specialists, as well as anti-tank units plus they're scoring (I wouldn't count on any one unit holding an objective -- so it could help if almost all my infantry is scoring).

That was my plan and seemed solid enough, but perhaps I'm mistaken (again, I'm totally new to D.E.).

About Issue #3:
Noted and accounted for! ;)A trick I pull with my Necron air: if my fliers arrive before my opponent's fliers do, then I make them exit the table immediately and have them return in the subsequent turn, repeating the process until my opponent's fliers arrive before mine, at which point I engage and down as many as possible.

So far this has worked fine, so I feel easy about the Voidravens despite their AV. Let me know if you see anything weak about this tactic..
.. I could imagine that it might scare someone into not using their fliers as they ought to, although that could be perfect as well.

With all that said, I will agree that a smart player will remember the Interceptor rule on his/her Quad Gun (or whatever they bring, that has the Interceptor rule), and take out my fliers that way.. so I guess that I have to admit that your point has a lot of merit, especially with all the Aegis Lines with Quad Guns out there..

About Issue #4:
Ok. I've combined the Beastmasters into a single unit. Due to how I've played with the points, I now have 3x Beastmasters, 4x Razorwing Flocks and 5x Khymera. Is this an appropriate ratio for a Beast-pack? That design flaw was a total newbie-error -_-

--------------------------------

Suggested Solution #2:
Hmmm.. on one hand you're correct: vehicles aren't a big deal with my gaming group. On another hand (and this may sound insane), I don't plan on my local meta, so we can forget about what my friends might bring to the table Wink(besides, there are always new people coming in -- so TAC is more important than local meta -- for me anyways). Instead I try to simply ensure that I have all my bases covered. For instance, by balancing anti-vehicle, anti-infantry, anti-air, anti-TEQ, etc. I don't yet feel that I have a full grasp of the codex yet -- but based on my understanding and your critique, I would guess that it might be better to either have more Wyches with haywire grenades, or replace all the Wyches (and a unit of Kabalite Warriors) with Ravagers? Yes? No? This is a point of confusion based on inexperience with D.E.

Suggested Solution #3:
I see your point.. so perhaps I should exchange the Voidravens for more anti-armour? Say (as you suggested), some Ravagers?

About Eldar Allies:
After all this is said and done, I'd like to point out that I'm definitely open to the idea of allying with Eldar (however super heavies are out of the question for me, simply due to their price tag -- as in money)! What would you recommend in the way of Eldar support?

Once again, outstanding review and I appreciate everything you've offered here! Smile

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Mandor
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 09:36

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
About Issue #2:
I was wondering about anti-tank capabilities and honestly thought that I had enough with my two units of Wyches with haywire grenades for the alpha-strike, but as I said I am worried about armour. Would you say that a third unit of Wyches (replacing one unit of Kabalite Warriors) would be sufficient to pop open at least one transport for First Blood? The way I imagine it is: say I go up against a mech army, would it not suffice to simply use my three (but currently only two..) Wyche units to crack open a transport, then use my Kabalites to mow down whatever comes crawling out? Ideally however, I thought I could at least crack open two (maybe three, if I add a unit of Wyches?) transports -- but perhaps this is wishful thinking, and so either more Wyches and/or Ravagers are needed..
The problem here is the way GW has set up 6th edition. You will never be able to reach assault with your Wyches to use grenades on the first turn. With 24" separating you and your opponent, you have a 6" transport move, 6" disembarkation and a 2D6" assault move, for an average of 19" assault reach. So instead, with Haywire Wyches, you aim for a second turn assault. And with the fragility of any Dark Eldar units, you will probably not get first blood that way.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
I understand your concern about having Voidravens as anti-tank. To be honest they're mostly for anti-air -- but again, I see your point. That being said, I have also considered replacing both Wych units (as well as a unit of Kabalite Warriors) with 3x Ravagers for long-range anti-AV; I went for Wyches based on the premises that they could double-up as close-combat specialists, as well as anti-tank units plus they're scoring (I wouldn't count on any one unit holding an objective -- so it could help if almost all my infantry is scoring).

That was my plan and seemed solid enough, but perhaps I'm mistaken (again, I'm totally new to D.E.).
Dark Eldar are notably weak at shooting flyers (note: NOT flying monstrous creatures). This is actually one of the reasons to add some Eldar allies. But most Dark Eldar players simply ignore flyers and move out of their attack vectors. Personally, I'd drop the two Voidravens and add three Ravagers with Night Shields. That setup is not that expensive and fills up your heavy support slots quite nicely.

Be careful of dropping troops for more firepower. Our troops are very fragile and you still need to be able to claim those objectives at the end of the game. At 1850 points, six MSU troops are a must. So you are OK there in your original list.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
About Issue #3:
Noted and accounted for! ;)A trick I pull with my Necron air: if my fliers arrive before my opponent's fliers do, then I make them exit the table immediately and have them return in the subsequent turn, repeating the process until my opponent's fliers arrive before mine, at which point I engage and down as many as possible.

So far this has worked fine, so I feel easy about the Voidravens despite their AV. Let me know if you see anything weak about this tactic..
.. I could imagine that it might scare someone into not using their fliers as they ought to, although that could be perfect as well.
Except this is illegal. You are not allowed to move your flyers off the board in the turn they arrive. It's somewhere in the 6th edition rulebook or FAQ.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
With all that said, I will agree that a smart player will remember the Interceptor rule on his/her Quad Gun (or whatever they bring, that has the Interceptor rule), and take out my fliers that way.. so I guess that I have to admit that your point has a lot of merit, especially with all the Aegis Lines with Quad Guns out there..
Our flyers fold against any AA and the Razorwing even folds against regular bolter fire. If you use our flyers, you simply have to take out any Quadguns. Fortunately, with splinter cannons, this is fairly easy to do first turn. So that leaves (mostly) enemy flyers as your main concern.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
About Issue #4:
Ok. I've combined the Beastmasters into a single unit. Due to how I've played with the points, I now have 3x Beastmasters, 4x Razorwing Flocks and 5x Khymera. Is this an appropriate ratio for a Beast-pack? That design flaw was a total newbie-error -_-
This is fine. Though with a heavy Eldar/Tau meta with lots of strength 6+ shooting (instant death vs razorwing flock), I'd rather go with 3 BM, 2 RF, 10 Khy or 4 BM, 4 RF, 10 Khy.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
Suggested Solution #2:
Hmmm.. on one hand you're correct: vehicles aren't a big deal with my gaming group. On another hand (and this may sound insane), I don't plan on my local meta, so we can forget about what my friends might bring to the table Wink(besides, there are always new people coming in -- so TAC is more important than local meta -- for me anyways). Instead I try to simply ensure that I have all my bases covered. For instance, by balancing anti-vehicle, anti-infantry, anti-air, anti-TEQ, etc. I don't yet feel that I have a full grasp of the codex yet -- but based on my understanding and your critique, I would guess that it might be better to either have more Wyches with haywire grenades, or replace all the Wyches (and a unit of Kabalite Warriors) with Ravagers? Yes? No? This is a point of confusion based on inexperience with D.E.
I always build TAC lists as well. As to Haywire Wyches, it depends a bit on the rest of your list. If you take 3 Ravagers, you are less dependent on Wyches for anti-tank. A beast pack or a unit of Grotesques can take down low-AV vehicles as well. But if you don't take any Raiders, you lose some AT power there. I usually drop the Blaster on my troop Warriors and take Wyches with Haywire Grenades instead. It's not a clear cut answer.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
Suggested Solution #3:
I see your point.. so perhaps I should exchange the Voidravens for more anti-armour? Say (as you suggested), some Ravagers?
I'd take 3 Ravagers over 2 Voidravens.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
About Issue #4:About Eldar Allies:
After all this is said and done, I'd like to point out that I'm definitely open to the idea of allying with Eldar (however super heavies are out of the question for me, simply due to their price tag -- as in money)! What would you recommend in the way of Eldar support?

Once again, outstanding review and I appreciate everything you've offered here! Smile
Eldar allies are simply awesome. Some pointers:

  • Farseer on Jetbike with Shard of Anaris: add this to your Baron + large beast pack and you have an insanely powerful and resilient unit;
  • Windrider Jetbike squads: 51 points for a T4 3+/3++ troop choice that can move 48" a turn, what's not to like?
  • Spiritseer + Wraithguard + Wave Serpent: very expensive, but these complement a Dark Eldar force nicely with resilient troops, a resilient transport and strength 10 weaponry;
  • Warp Spiders: a foot unit that can actually keep up with your skimmers and fire a high number of medium strength shots, something Dark Eldar generally lack;
  • Nightspinner: provides your list with a large blast, medium strength barrage shot you can get nowhere else in our codex;
  • Warwalkers: similar to Warp Spiders, fire a load of medium strength shots, but unlike Warp Spiders, do so at range.

Eldar complement Dark Eldar is so many ways. Even in its most basic form, a Shard Jetseer + 2x Windrider Jetbikes, it's already worth it.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 10:18

Thank you Mandor!

I'm starting to see the logic of things unfold here, and so I've gone and switched my Voidravens out for Ravagers. However I have only enough points for two (with Nightshields) and 62 points remaining. I don't know where I should collect the final 53 points from?

- I'm thinking I could trade in the Beastmasters, but then the Baron won't have a unit to move with
- I could take out a unit of Wyches, but as I'm a complete newb to D.E. I don't know if that would be smart, especially considering that they're troops
- I could take out a unit of Trueborn..
- As Thor suggested, I could take out Vect and either replace him with another H.Q. unit or keep that extra slot empty

As for the Eldar allies, I also don't know what I'd exchange for them.. Wyches? Kabalite Warriors? So many interesting ideas..

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 18:45

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
About Issue #2:
I was wondering about anti-tank capabilities and honestly thought that I had enough with my two units of Wyches with haywire grenades for the alpha-strike, but as I said I am worried about armour.
Wyches with haywires are not alpha strike.

24" between armies at a minimum presuming both of you deploy on the line and get the right deployment type.
6" transport move.
6" disembark.
2-12" charge.

Meaning, for haywires to alpha strike, you need to have an opponent deploy on the edge of their deployment zone, and do the same, and be directly across from him, and roll a 12 on your assault role.

Yes, that could happen, but...
HWGs are not alpha strike. They will help kill no vehicles till round 2 unless you go second and your opponent comes forward - which is not what you seem to want this list to do.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
Would you say that a third unit of Wyches (replacing one unit of Kabalite Warriors) would be sufficient to pop open at least one transport for First Blood?
They could easily destroy a transport.
The likelihood of it being for First Blood...varies, but no, I would not expect it to work for First Blood due to reasons explained above.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
I understand your concern about having Voidravens as anti-tank. To be honest they're mostly for anti-air -- but again, I see your point. That being said, I have also considered replacing both Wych units (as well as a unit of Kabalite Warriors) with 3x Ravagers for long-range anti-AV; I went for Wyches based on the premises that they could double-up as close-combat specialists, as well as anti-tank units plus they're scoring (I wouldn't count on any one unit holding an objective -- so it could help if almost all my infantry is scoring).

That was my plan and seemed solid enough, but perhaps I'm mistaken (again, I'm totally new to D.E.).
I do not advocate running less Troop slots. I do advocate running Ravagers in the Heavy slots as opposed to the current choice of Voidravens, especially with your stated intent of alpha strike. Ravagers going first are capable of killing an enemy vehicle for First Blood, for instance.

24" minimum between armies.
You deploy on the line.
12" move
36" range = pretty much you can shoot anywhere on the board, so it doesn't matter whether he deployed on his back or forward edge.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
About Issue #3:
Noted and accounted for! ;)A trick I pull with my Necron air: if my fliers arrive before my opponent's fliers do, then I make them exit the table immediately and have them return in the subsequent turn, repeating the process until my opponent's fliers arrive before mine, at which point I engage and down as many as possible.

So far this has worked fine, so I feel easy about the Voidravens despite their AV. Let me know if you see anything weak about this tactic..
The biggest issue I see with this tactic is that it was FAQed. This is an illegal maneuver and has been for some time (since early Croissant spam days). Basically you are not allowed to leave airspace on the same turn you arrive from Reserves/Ongoing Reserves.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
About Issue #4:
Ok. I've combined the Beastmasters into a single unit. Due to how I've played with the points, I now have 3x Beastmasters, 4x Razorwing Flocks and 5x Khymera. Is this an appropriate ratio for a Beast-pack?
I consider that the default 'value' build wherein the pack is large enough to handle most issues, but affordable enough to easily fit into an army build. I would make it no smaller, but if you desired you could amp it up depending on the roll you wish it to fill and how much fire you hope to draw.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
I try to simply ensure that I have all my bases covered. For instance, by balancing anti-vehicle, anti-infantry, anti-air, anti-TEQ, etc. I don't yet feel that I have a full grasp of the codex yet -- but based on my understanding and your critique, I would guess that it might be better to either have more Wyches with haywire grenades, or replace all the Wyches (and a unit of Kabalite Warriors) with Ravagers? Yes? No? This is a point of confusion based on inexperience with D.E.
The biggest point I want to make sure you understand is the limited ability of blasters and HWGs to damage mech on Turn 1. They are excellent anti-mech tools and will do the job quite well...but they won't really start doing it till Turn 2 most of the time. This can depend on a number of factors, naturally, but it's important to understand as it's a common mistake I see a lot of newer players make with Venomspam armies. 6th edition modifies this somewhat as more people are leaving transports out of it and there are also the new waves of walkers with T values (also known to us as 'really expensive things we wound as easily as we wound Imperial Guardsmen')

But, currently, your alpha strike is pretty much nothing but the s.cannons. You have a very very limited ability to hurt vehicles round 1, especially if your opponent doesn't deploy like a twit. This is potentially not even an issue, but it *is* something that you should understand before ever putting the army on the table, because otherwise you could get wiped by a mech army and then complain that you brought a lot of anti-mech without really understanding why, in some ways, you have almost none (basically, your army has no anti mech against anything 24.01+" away from it. It has 1 dark lance and 4 void lances, capable of shooting, at most, 3 targets and, on turn 1, it has 1 dark lance and the ability to shoot at 1 target.

we_r_the_4th_wall_in_40k wrote:
What would you recommend in the way of Eldar support?
It depends on your build and goals. I would say a Jetseer paired up with a Beastpack deathstar is probably the most obvious and functional inclusion (or, for DE allying with Eldar, adding the Baron to a Jetseer Council) Taking a couple of Windriders as reserve sitting objective grabbers for mid/late game is a pretty affordable way to bring in all the power that the Jetseer does at an affordable cost.

Beyond that the sky is the limit depending what you want and what the build is looking like, but the Eldar codex has some very powerful units and a lot of them combo pretty well with us (from Wave Serpents to Warp Spiders).

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 19:18

I see... So I've changed everything you recommended (except the H.Q. choices) but I'm still 53 points away from having enough points to include a third Ravager..

Any recommendations? Or are you still of the opinion that I should take out Vect?

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 19:47

I am certainly of that opinion, but if you do not wish to take out Vect you could always feed points back into some other unit.

Another option is dropping 1 Trueborn from each Trueborn squad, which would net you an extra 54 points. Losing 2 blasters for +3 lances seems a pretty fair trade.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam   1850 TAC Dark Eldar Venom Spam I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 20:55

Excellent! I'll try both options:
- Exchanging some Trueborns for a Ravager (with the updates I've made, that would mean removing 1x Venom with the three Trueborn inside) and then,
- Exchanging Vect for a Ravager with Night Shields and some Eldar allies (a Farseer with a Shard Of Anaris to join the Beastmasters, as well as a Windrider Jetbike Squad, with a total of 8x Windrider Guardians)!

I might report back to this thread in some months to share my experience and mention which option I prefer and why. Thanks again everyone!! Your help was so much more than I expected! I plan on contributing to the boards as I build and play-test my D.E.! Smile

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