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 Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?

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Elzadar
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Elzadar

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15 2014, 14:25

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
As I recall, it didn't actually play the game, it played to table. I'd still rather play it than triptide tau or loophole abuse tau. FWs are also pretty hard to drop when they're effectively terminators (2+ go to ground behind an ADL).

Then use your speed to get behind the defence line to deny them their cover

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clively
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clively

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15 2014, 19:15

@Elzadar wrote:
@Panic_Puppet wrote:
As I recall, it didn't actually play the game, it played to table. I'd still rather play it than triptide tau or loophole abuse tau. FWs are also pretty hard to drop when they're effectively terminators (2+ go to ground behind an ADL).

Then use your speed to get behind the defence line to deny them their cover

If FW get their 2+ by going to ground then you've effectively eliminated them from a round of shooting which makes it FAR easier to get up close and personal with them.  

Riptides are interesting.  I played against my first one last night in a 750pt game; I suspect as the league escalates every other week that he'll bring more.  However, it didn't decide the game and I won.  Mainly by ignoring it, and the hammerhead, and focusing entirely on his troops.  It's pretty hard to win an objective game when you have nothing that can claim.  Besides, troops make better slaves than a big machine.  Also, it helped that I had a Talos and Cronos putting pressure on his lines.  Those things are incredibly hard to kill, even for Tau. He spent 5 rounds pumping shots into them, finally dropping one in T5..

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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15 2014, 19:18

@clively wrote:

Riptides are interesting.  I played against my first one last night in a 750pt game; I suspect as the league escalates every other week that he'll bring more.  However, it didn't decide the game and I won.  Mainly by ignoring it, and the hammerhead, and focusing entirely on his troops.  It's pretty hard to win an objective game when you have nothing that can claim.  Besides, troops make better slaves than a big machine.  Also, it helped that I had a Talos and Cronos putting pressure on his lines.  Those things are incredibly hard to kill, even for Tau.  He spent 5 rounds pumping shots into them, finally dropping one in T5..

A hammerhead AND a riptide in 750pts?!? That leaves about 300pts (if that) for troops and HQ. Evidently he was overconfident in the Riptide's capabilities.
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clively
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15 2014, 19:36

I think his entire list was:
Fireblade Cadre as HQ
6 man Firewarriors
6 man Firewarriors
3 Stealth suits with 2 drones
1 Crisis suit
Riptide
Hammerhead.

The only markerlights he had was with the 2 drones.

Don't get me wrong, I thought I was going to lose that game when T3 ended and my 3 venoms and reavers were smoked. However, my Talos and Cronos had kept moving forward. They ended up killing the stealth suits, both firewarrior groups and was in assault range of the crisis suit, which only had 1 wound left.

What he *should* have done is let his riptide run wild against my (2) 5 man warrior groups and haemi w/wracks. I had nothing that could pump out enough shots to wipe 6 wounds of a 2+ save creature once the venoms were down. He did kill one of those groups but then focused everything he had into my MCs. In the end I had 3 objectives plus warlord and line breaker (big guns, so talos got one) and he had 2 plus first blood.

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Elzadar
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15 2014, 23:22

@clively wrote:
I think his entire list was:
Fireblade Cadre as HQ
6 man Firewarriors
6 man Firewarriors
3 Stealth suits with 2 drones
1 Crisis suit
Riptide
Hammerhead.

The only markerlights he had was with the 2 drones.

Fireblade also has a markerlight

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Roc
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 01:09

When the new Codex comes out, if we get the Tyranid treatment, likely nothing will change....  Smile

I have a question myself though-- is it straight Tau that people are having such trouble with? I face them fairly often, and if its not a Tau/Eldar combo, it is not that big of a deal.

Exactly what makes Tau and Eldar, separately, so powerful on the tournament circuit? I still run an assault based list and nothing really gives me extreme fits except for fliers. I mean seriously-- what are we supposed to do against 4 - 5 flier lists? The only non-ally build I'm currently comfortable with uses Stronghold Assault gun emplacements...
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Elzadar
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Elzadar

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 03:21

@Roc wrote:
When the new Codex comes out, if we get the Tyranid treatment, likely nothing will change....  Smile

I have a question myself though-- is it straight Tau that people are having such trouble with? I face them fairly often, and if its not a Tau/Eldar combo, it is not that big of a deal.

Exactly what makes Tau and Eldar, separately, so powerful on the tournament circuit? I still run an assault based list and nothing really gives me extreme fits except for fliers. I mean seriously-- what are we supposed to do against 4 - 5 flier lists? The only non-ally build I'm currently comfortable with uses Stronghold Assault gun emplacements...

Maybe people are having trouble with the Farsight supplement, seeing how it has xv8s as troops and upgrades to make the Riptide's nova reactor more reliable

EDIT: after some more research it seems that eldar pretty much covers all of Tau's weaknesses, because they're fast and are able to give psychic support. While tau can protect the weak psykers with either kroot blobs or riptides.

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Dirtydeeds
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16 2014, 06:07

@doomseer11b wrote:
Tau and well balanced in the same sentence?  Obviously you haven't seen the power builds they have.  3 units of broadsides with the missile pods that ignore cover and don't need LOS?????  AND I believe they're S8?!?!?  Good luck dealing with that.  Each unit gets like 60 shots it's ridiculous.  I may be off on how many shots but I know its ridiculous.  You use that with a commander outfit for support only.....  Done son.  Not to mention all these ridiculous updates they keep giving them.  And tradition doesn't matter.  This edition is completely different than any other.  I'm speaking in reference to elzadar, I apologize my phone is on the fritz and won't let me quote.  

The only saving grace we have is to take out the commander (still have to deal with broadsides) and then if that happens and that's a BIG IF generally they start to unravel.  But T5 SV2 FNP and 4+ invul with a 2+ look out is REALLY HARD to deal with.  I hate to be a nay sayer but I just don't see how a power list can be beaten

This post is so blatantly wrong you are either trying to blow up your situation or your Tau opponent is giving you false facts. Broadsides are not as strong as you are making them out to be... The maximum number of shots a squad of High-Yield Missile pods with Smart Missile Systems and two missile drones per suit is 36 shots, and only a third of those ignore cover/LOS naturally. In addition, they have a range of 36" and 30" respectively. The best way to counter it is night shields. Now you can still shoot the Broadsides and they can't shoot back without moving and snap firing. Honestly, Dark Eldar can win a shooting match against Tau, it'll just take a few turns. Target Riptides and Hammerheads first, then pick on everything else. Tau have very few units that can target you outside of 36".
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 19 2014, 17:20

My opinion is that we won't get the Eldar treatment. We will get the Tyranid treatment at best. Given the last few dexes and the release rate, I don't believe they will have enough time to rethink and playtest the codex seriously. I am not hopeful that the rumoured 6.5 edition or 7th in some cases will reveal the balance masterplan behind the new dexes. In addition, I think GW likes to release mediocre or so-so codex and then 2-3 dataslates/supplements to make it playable on comp level. For example: I think mandrakes will get the "genestealer" treatment... They will keep them as they are and release a dataslate to make them uber. :-)
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 19 2014, 18:33

Well, we still have mr. Kelly...

But im fully expect some craziness like roll D6 when Pain Token is gained to know if its advantage or some debuff.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 19 2014, 18:59

I think the reason why people don't play Dark Eldar from 5th to 6th is the way Dark Eldar changed. In 5th, everyone wanted to run Venom Spam because everyone thought that was the crap in our codex. In 6th, people thought that would work as well. It really didn't work very well in 5th and doesn't work very well in 6th. Too much of a good thing is not always a good thing.

Also, back in 5th, we relied on stun-locking vehicles and stopping them from shooting the following turn. Now in 6th, we cant rely on that. We need to kill things dead. 1 Space Marine can blow up our basic transports. Everything is threat, and not killing it, or leaving a Hullpoint here or 2-3 guys alive there means we die later. We had to adapt as an army to play in this new edition, where most armies received new codices and new boosts.

Target priority is the most important thing in 6th Edition for us next to Deployment. We need to kill the things that have the easiest time killing us. We need to focus fire things down until they are dead. When playing Tau, don't shoot the Riptides Turn 1 and Turn 2. Their damage output is not as big as Broadsides, or they don't support the army like Pathfinders. Riptides will crumble once their support is gone. People love shooting them first turn just because we have Poison, this is so wrong. With Eldar, you need to have some cover. Yes Shields ignore cover, but they aren't reliable. People don't get 6 or 7 shots everytime. The Twin-Linking helps tons, but our Ravagers and other lances should be targeting Serpents first turn every time. Again, shoot them dead, because even Snap Shotting Serpents will kill you.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Dark Eldar not seen more?   Why is Dark Eldar not seen more? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 19 2014, 22:00

Amen to that...
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