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 Tips and Tricks against Necrons

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Dogmar
Sybarite
Dogmar

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PostSubject: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12 2014, 17:23

Hello fellow Archons,

some time has passed since the necron codex dropped and the hype has died down. The threat however remains, since that bloody ward dex... I'm trailing off here... they're still a strong army with very strong builds even though the current tournament meta favors others more. Especially against DE masses of S7 Tesla fire, they're flying french breakfast of doom and warriors that get back up are dangerous to DE.

A friend of mine who has far more gaming experience than me plays Necrons and I haven't been able to beat him even once with my DE (although it was close at times). Normally he plays strong but balanced lists, so no 18 Destructor-Wraiths and only 1-2 flyers instead of 9 Wink. His list features a big unit of Tesla Immortals with Overlord (mindshackle, 2+ armor and other stuff), 1 Flyer with deathmarks + cryptek for cheesy fleshbane AP1 flamer, 2 units of 5-6 Warriors with Ghost Spear Cryptek (sometimes one of them in a flyer), 6 Wraiths, 2 Annihilationbarges, 3 Spiders, 2 Units of Scarabs. These all fit into one 1500pt list. Sometimes he changes a unit or two up (3 Anni-Barges for example) but generally you expect something along those lines from him.

My 1.5k list is either more or less identical to Mush's Black Buzzard list (some change ups on upgrades and unit composition, but basically warriors and 2 max units of jetbikes) or a more vehicle heavy kabal list as I love mech Smile

Archon - Blaster, Shadowfield, Venom Blade, Combat drugs (had spare points)
2x 10 Kabalites with SC in Raider
2x 5 Haywire Wyches in Venom
1x 5 Kabalites with Blaster in Venom
1x 3 Blasterborn in Venom
9 Jetbikes with 3 Heatlances, Champion with Venomblade
2 Lance-Ravagers

Everything with Nightshields (especially helpful against necrons I've found).

It's not your typical venom spam but should put out some dakka.

Thing is in all games I've had I feel I'm still lacking output. I can't deal with everything he has fast enough. Usually I focus my Splinterfire on the Wraiths first unit they're down and pour the lances in the Annihilation Barges, those need(!) to go. Then I'd go after scarabs and Spiders since they make a mess out of everything (stupid ward) if you ignore them too long. After that I can clean up his troops since they're slow and not too dangerous. The flyer(s) are relatively easy to outmaneuver if it's only 2 of them.
In a past game I just havent been able to blow him off his objectives after clearing up the dangerous stuff though. I admit I tend to roll like crap most of the time and the lances are cursed anyway, but it seems to me I'm missing something.

Can you point me some suggestions be them specific to the given lists or general advice against necrons? I really want to beat him next time. I really need some food for thought.

On a sidenote: we are playing on a table with a reasonable mount of terrain. Mostly just area terrain though and few ruins / buildings that completely block LOS (depending on what table we get at our club).


Cheers,

Dogmar
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helvexis
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helvexis

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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12 2014, 18:08

I've found that spending the first two turns out ranging the 24" inch guns moving backwards until they are weak enough to close with
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12 2014, 18:39

I find that Necrons are the sort of army you want to throw as much firepower as you can at them and slowly wittle them down.
If you've got Raiders, fill them with Warriors using Splinter Racks. If you have Venoms, don't forget to take the additional Splinter Cannons.
THings like Blasters are all good against large vehicles, but their limited shots aren't that useful against squads like full on Immortal units. For these, I always find weight of fire to be far better.
I'd suggest making one of your Ravagers a Disintegrator gun-boat to deal with squads, and maybe think about either dropping the Heat Lances on the Reavers and taking Cluster Caltrops, or splitting it into three small squads with a Heat Lance each.

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Zeusius
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12 2014, 19:54

That large squad of reavers might be a point sink for you buddy and I agree that heatlances might be inferior becaue in reality if you use heatlances it means you didnt turboboost which means you arent getting a 3+ cover save. Thats around 250 points that probably dies pretty easily and often. I run a squad of six with catrops but with crons maybe 3 squads all with one grav talon??? You could boost over multiple squads of his and hope for some pinning to stop his march. Also its much harder to shoot at 3 squads than one which will keep your vehicles aive longer.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12 2014, 20:13

Quote :
Thats around 250 points that probably dies pretty easily and often. I run a squad of six with catrops but with crons maybe 3 squads all with one grav talon???

There is a strong Reaver lobby on this forum, so i would look around carefully if i were you )). In case 27 Reavers want to chop some heads.

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Zeusius
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12 2014, 20:18

lawlz I love reavers but a squad that needs to get within "18"of the enemy to shoot its points worth and doesn't have a cover save will die.

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Dogmar
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Dogmar

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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12 2014, 20:56

I'm still learning how to use the reavers, as they do require careful positioning or a simple flamer can end them right there. However the potential 48" movement and 9D3 autohits (assuming no caltrops) are enough to scare the crap out of most opponents, so that they dedicate way more firepower against them than necessary. They mess with target priority. I also like the unit. Maybe Mush will enlighten me on the usefulness of them?! Wink

I can certainly try some games without them. I have another ravager and a couple raiders on standby.

On another note, do you think I got target priority right?

1. Annihilation Barges / Wraiths
2. Scarabs/Spiders
3. That Flamer / Small Troops
4. Rest
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13 2014, 06:22

I would drop the 3 Heat Lances from the Reavers and maybe give the Champ a Power Lance. Your basic strat would be to Turbo Boost over things, landing deep backfield then charge his back line next turn. Maybe even start them in reserve and allow him to move slowly forwards and as the rest of your army, as mentioned above, stays out of his 24" range. It's like Outflanking without Outflanking

Edit: I'd switch the 3 Blasters for 2 DLs too to help with the Alphastrike

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Dakkon
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13 2014, 16:41

I play necrons as my main and your friend has a pretty balanced list. (how nice of him)

Your priority is fine. It all depends on how aggressive he's playing with his fast attack units (wraiths and scarabs).

Most important thing to remember is that there is nothing in that list that can shoot more than 36" (Assuming the A-barges move 12 and snapshot at 24 range, which greatly reduces it's firepower, but still always manage 3-6 hits from twin-linked tesla). However, USUALLY necron players will charge their wraiths up front to hopefully get them into combat by turn 2-3. you must avoid this, luckily your friend is only using 1 unit so it should be pretty easy to take the wraiths out. Don't forget that they are only t4, so you can instakill them with your lances/blasters. Position your army OUT of tesla range and quickly remove the wraiths.

With the wraiths gone you can then proceed out-ranging the rest of the army by moving back and shooting. (remember, back is not the only direction to move. you can pile up on one side of board then next turn turbo boost EVERYTHING to the other side, so only 1-2 enemy units are in range to shoot back instead of their whole army). Just make sure you dont get surrounded into the corner (partially this depends on map and deployment, but try to guide his movement if possible.)

Agree that you may want to switch the HL on the reavers to blasters, this way you can even take some early pot shots at the overly aggressive wraiths/scarabs (for instakill goodness) and jump back with the jetbike rule. (wraiths/scarabs can only move 12 + 7 inch average charge at 19" max)

Do this until your friend brings 18 wraiths Wink
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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13 2014, 19:28

Here's another thread concerning Fighting Necrons that you may find helpful. I play both DE and Necrons and a lot of my thoughts are in there.

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t8010-fighting-necrons
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eohall
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13 2014, 20:49

Lots of good advice here. I'd really encourage you to consider making room for a third Ravager. DL shots are golden against crons, both for the strength/armor popping, and additionally for the extended range, which coupled with a few nightshields can help you dance around those tin cans while you blast them to shrapnel.
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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 14 2014, 07:19

I have had great success using grots against necrons.  I have a few necron players but one in particular likes the 3 annihilation barges and night scythe builds, immortals in there too with some scarabs and wraiths.  My build usually consists of venoms with haywire wyches, and 5 man kabalite warrior teams in venoms with a blaster in each.  The grots and wyches go in quick and out pressure on his barges while the venoms take care of the wraiths.  I haven't had to deal with spiders but I will say the grots always are the star players and usually clean up most of everything you have to deal with.  My opponents know the wrath of them so they tend to try and deal with them as quick as they can which is tough to do with an army that has a hard time insta killing T5.  Try some grots and 3 man trueborn with splintercannons.  I have only lost one time to crons and it was on account of HORRIBLE dice roll on my part and OUTSTANDING dice roll on his.  Grots have yet to fail my in most match ups, I almost always bring them at 1500+ games.  They make waste of all vehicles (save armor 14), and are one of the best distraction units we have.

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Dogmar
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Dogmar

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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 14 2014, 22:35

I don't have any Grots yet but I was planning on converting some anyway, so I might give that a try. I feel there is a need for a counter assault unit for cases where shooting alone won't cut it. Clearing out stuff in 2+ cover or tying shooty stuff up once it comes into range. Something like that. For Grots to be worthwhile they need FC though, so they can Instakill Scarabs with S6! (only source of mass S6 in our book without Eldar allies... sigh)

@Unholyllama: That thread is very good as well. It seems my target priority and army composition are quite good from what I've read there (other than the reavers, you either love them or hate them Very Happy ). Maybe the dice will favor me more in my next game. I'll try to play flank heavier so that I can get a maximum amount of firepower into his units while trying to deny others to be in shooting range on their turn. That might involve deliberately going second as weird as that sounds for Dark Eldar.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15 2014, 00:18

Others have said pretty much what I was going to say. Your target priority is cool, dance around, outrange them, shoot them to pieces, charge in mid to late game with HQ + grots.

I would take a 3rd ravager. Blasterborn may not be the best way to go as you have to get close to use them, same thing with 10 warriors in raiders.
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PostSubject: Re: Tips and Tricks against Necrons   Tips and Tricks against Necrons I_icon_minitime

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