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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 03:47

Today at a tournament I faced a list that comprised of 5 drop pods, 3 storm ravens and 2 storm talons. I won the right to deploy first / go first. On my turn he did have a single model on the board so I could do nothing. He pointed to the W40K FAQ which states:

"Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in
reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in
Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or
Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves?
(p124)
A: No."

I thought that you had to have 1/2 your models out on the field or you lose.

Side note, what's even more frustrating is that I feel as though he slow-played me, as after 2.5 hours we only finished turn 3 (mind you, my first turn was skipped due to the reserves cheese)
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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 06:24

Unfortunately you got cheesed on, this one of the many reasons I'm focusing on casual play and not competitive play. There is so much cheese now at tournaments that the game is becoming un-fun.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 06:34

Yeah it's annoying and absolutely shenanigans, but it's legal.
Him slow-playing you is a d-bag move though. Sorry about your luck man.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 08:27

Sorry but if you were facing that sort of list then you are almost always better off going second as you will not have anything to do turn one.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 08:58

I find these sort of exploits ruin the hobby for me, there is a fine line between a loophole and a game ruining loophole. Having everything pod in like that can be fun in a casual game and make for good story, but that slow-play really takes the cake, you have my pity, for whatever that is worth.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 09:34

The slow play is annoying but in my opinion the pod tactic is perfectly fine. What's wrong with it?

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 09:40

Agreed, the full pod assault is also very fluffy! It's at the end of any game turn - not player turn - that you check for models on each side. At the end of any game turn should a player have no models on the table they loose.

For drop pods, the marines always get half rounding up to deploy in their turn 1. In this case he has 5 pods so 3 arrive at the start of his turn 1 - no more, no less. Then at the start of his turn 2 he rolls for the aircraft and remaining pods as per the normal reserve rules. Should none arrive and you have destroyed all 3 pods and their contents then he looses.

Thus tactic is far from a loop hole - it's in the main rules and codex explicitly. It's actually a very hard army to win with as they are slow to redeploy in late game.

The slow play is just bad form though

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 10:06

I played against an all drop pod army at Throne of Skulls recently. By the end of turn 4 he had one unit left and I had pretty much my whole army. It's not really something I'm that scared of.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 12:08

Count, was that Liam's Blood Angels one?

All-pod armies have been in the game for ever: I used to enjoy fighting my friend's Loganwing. All-pod lists see ALL the action happening in turn 2-3; with no mobility, they are very slow. If you can survive the waves, by spreading out thin, you can run rings round them late game.
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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 12:19

@commandersasha wrote:
Count, was that Liam's Blood Angels one?

No, it was Space Wolves.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 12:39

I see what you guys mean, I amend the statement about the loophole. After reading the above, it must be a pretty hard list to use.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 13:15

It can be very hard to get right for sure

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 18:06

The key is to just jump on those first pods and their contents hardcore. Also, you want to deploy so that you can control where he/she can land those pods. Spread out your units and make them come in in general areas where you can control and conquer.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 21:07

Annoying and legal I'm afraid, HOWEVER did you go first?

If so, then page 122 is your friend.

P122, Victory Conditions, First paragraph.
"...if at the end of game turn one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins the game."

Of course it doesn't stop the cheese deployment, but if you go first, then you automatically win the game at the end of your first turn.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 21:21

A player turn is different than a game turn.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 30 2013, 01:06

@Squidmaster wrote:
Annoying and legal I'm afraid, HOWEVER did you go first?

If so, then page 122 is your friend.

P122, Victory Conditions, First paragraph.
"...if at the end of game turn one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins the game."

Of course it doesn't stop the cheese deployment, but if you go first, then you automatically win the game at the end of your first turn.

You even have it I your own post! It's game turn, not player turn

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 30 2013, 09:58

Whoops. Fair enough, I did get that wrong. Sorry.

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 30 2013, 10:20

It would be funny though: the Space Marines lost, because they failed to turn up. A bit like the Ultramarines at Istvaan 5...
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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 30 2013, 14:38

Thanks for the replies. I'll make sure to notice this and start asking about my partner's army before rolling next time.
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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 30 2013, 18:48

Always worth knowing who and what you're up against before touching the dice; if you don't know who what's trying to kill you, how can you deploy for it?

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PostSubject: Re: Space Marines & Drop pod reserves   Space Marines & Drop pod reserves I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 31 2013, 13:12

If my opponent wants to come in piecemeal, and get shot off the board each turn, be my guest! I love seeing drop pod armies (or marines, nids or demons in any form) across the table from me.

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