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 Why seven Wyches?

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Kinnay
Wych
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PostSubject: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 21 2011, 07:37

Hey,
I was just wondering why it seems to be common sense to field Wych units of seven. Why is that so? Is seven the most effective number and if yes, why?

Please enlighten this blind fellow. Smile

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 21 2011, 12:27

Heh, I suggest 7 because it's lucky number Surprised

But seriously let's say they fight 5 MEQ without FNP (a common razorspam troop) and You don't have any combat drug/pain effects (they help "a little"). Unit is 6+ Ago.
You have pretty big chance to kill at least 1 SM with normal attacks and 1-2 with Agoniser on charge (and there is small chance that girls get their butts kicked ie lose combat). In next phase (the one enemy could shoot You) You have big chance to win this fight if You've killed 3 already.

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Urien Rakarth
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 21 2011, 12:30

It's all about the likely statistical distribution of wounds. If you take a large squad you are more likely to wipe your opponent out in your own assault phase. For a unit with no armour save this is bad, even if you are lucky enough to wipe out your opponent and get a pain token there are still ways to remove that and you are likely to not have much of a squad left. Too few Wyches are unlikely to cause much damage and more liable to getting wiped out themselves.

Wyches want to grind a unit down and ideally beat them in the opponent's assault phase when you cannot be shot. For this reason 6-8 is the normal size because this tends to give the best chance of surviving through to your opponents turn and then beating something.
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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 21 2011, 22:45

I use 8 or ten , with str 3 its almost impossible to overkill anything

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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 22 2011, 10:24

I personally run 7 because thats what the points allow me to run Very Happy

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Kinnay
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 22 2011, 16:21

Hmm, I agree. I don't think 10 Wyches are strong enough to overrun an enemy unit in the first turn like say, Incubi. Also, when the transport of the unit of 7 blows up, they are under performance strength. I prefer 10, because that way they can take some casualties before entering CC and still be effective.
Of course, you can say 'if you take casualties before getting into CC, you're playing the Wyches wrong', but those things happen and I prefer being prepared.
Also, apart from GEQ, what unit would one squad of Wyches destroy in one turn? And GEQ is better shot to pieces. Wyches belong into combat with the nasties of the enemy army.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 22 2011, 20:46

If you take casualties before getting into CC, you're playing the Wyches wrong.

...wait, I feel like my presence was predicted.

I will note - it's not about one turn, it's about hopefully doing it in 2 turns of combat.
I also usually run my Wyches a little lighter than 10 because 1. I include a Haemon and 2. They're an easy point shaver (as 9 or 7 - is one dramatically worse?) to allow me to free up extra points for units that need them.

I usually run my Wyches in squads of 5-20...though I admit that at anything over 9 they're coming out of WWPs not Raiders.

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SinisterPlank
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 24 2011, 10:54

I like to run 9 or 10, with 1 shardnet in the group. Admitedly, this is the first place I go to shave off points, but I find winning combat isn't really that big of a deal if you choose your places right. Be sure you can consolidate into cover, even on the roll of 1. Heck, you have plasma grenades and fleet, charge stuff already in cover.

If you don't win combat in turn 1, make sure you do in turn 2, and don't let anything countercharge you. I charge out of raiders, most of the time, and I use the empty raider to block shooting. It's worked well enough.
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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2011, 17:17

@Thor665 wrote:
...though I admit that at anything over 9 they're coming out of WWPs not Raiders.

Same here - at 10 strong they are coming out of a portal, 2 nets and an agoniser.

Normally they are 8 on a raider (7 wyches + 1 hekatrix for a total of Cool.

I have ran 6 but that I found to be a little light the way I use them.
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GAR
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2011, 18:20

you can get away with 5 in a venom, but you will have to soften up whatever you are assaulting. The smaller units take a little getting used to.

Still, 7 is the most common number.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2011, 19:07

@Grumpy Kwi wrote:
I have ran 6 but that I found to be a little light the way I use them.
Ooh, I think someone hit on the true fundamental question of how many to use Wink
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GAR
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 25 2011, 20:12

@Thor665 wrote:
@Grumpy Kwi wrote:
I have ran 6 but that I found to be a little light the way I use them.
Ooh, I think someone hit on the true fundamental question of how many to use Wink

Yup, a good description of uses for wyches is always a good thing.

In short, for me my wyches are tank hunters first, light infantry killers second, tarpits third.

I know several who disagree with me on this, but their ability to get a first turn assault and hit armor with haywire grenades is by far too crucial to over look. In most instances, if you run 7 wyches autohitting a vehicle that has not moved yet, that is a lot of vehicles not moving or shooting if you multi assault or one wrecked or severely damaged vehicle.

One thing of note is no one much cares if a chimera is immobilized, but a land raider or Leman Russ or Hydra that cannot shoot is very sweet.

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WeeDawgNYC
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 26 2011, 03:47

has always been my golden number, I always run them with Haemon & always in a raider with aetehrsails. My other build is 10-15 with out of a wwp. but 7 is athe golden number.
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Why seven Wyches?   Why seven Wyches? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 26 2011, 09:51

Well its down to leadership tests aswell,

Now first leadership test (25%)
4 @ 1 dead
5 @ 2 dead
6 @ 2 dead
7 @ 2 dead
8 @ 2 dead
9 @ 3 dead

Well first look is, why not go for 6 or 5 then?

Now at second leadership test (50%)
4 @ 2 dead
5 @ 3 dead
6 @ 3 dead
7 @ 4 dead
8 @ 4 dead
9 @ 5 dead

You are most likely to either make the first one, or atleast make it in the next turn, but if you fail the second one with 50% down then you are in trouble, and thats when the benefit of 7 kicks in, you have one more spare body to loose before that one kicks in.

I always assume I will make every leadership test, actually when I start a battle I go for tabling without loosing anything, but beeing dark eldar that wont happen, so its good to take those few precoutions. 7 works excellent since the leadership tests, and because it just kills about enough.

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