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 What do we think of Bastions?

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commandersasha
Sybarite
commandersasha

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Join date : 2012-12-26
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PostSubject: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 02 2013, 00:18

I haven't really liked the Aegis, but I do like Sliscus manning a Quad Gun, for anti-air, and general pot shots.
I thought I might try the Bastion instead: I can build something out of Terraclips to try it with, and if it works can buy/build something nice and pirate-y for my themed army.

I like the idea of some AV14 for my troops to hide in to keep them safe for a few turns, and if a squad of warriors start on the roof with Sliscus and the gun, then scurry down indoors once they've received his poison splinters, they can be shooting for a few rounds, then run out to an objective late game.

Have any of you used (or faced) a bunker, and did you find it worthwhile? I assume one puts the gun on the roof or on the ground next to it; I think the roof would give a good command of the field, but then again, if the building gets destroyed, it takes a hit.

Thanks for your replies!
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Timatron
Sybarite
Timatron

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Join date : 2013-03-12
Location : Brighton

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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 02 2013, 01:52

The gun has to be on the roof. They die to melta really easily. As soon as you face a Salamander drop list or a melta-heavy bike list the bastion is a massive points-sink.
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The Red King
Hekatrix
The Red King

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Join date : 2013-07-09

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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 02 2013, 08:26

If a unit is on the roof then the buidling isn't occupied the battlements are (which has it's own separate rules). Now since you aren't inside it you can't benefit from hiding in it's av14 shell, but unless I'm mistaken it can't be shot either since it is an unoccupied building.

Now that being said you are wasting a good deal of a "fortification" by not getting inside that thick metal box, but against afore mentioned lists it should be worth it.

Even if my rules interpretation is incorrect, unless you are used to melta heavy drop or bike lists it might not be so bad as it isn't massively expensive and besides that, those drop pod meltas suicide squads could have even more easily popped open their intended targets (your all important transports and ravagers). So even against a list where they are a liability it can still serve as a fire magnet (albeit a fairly pricey one).

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 02 2013, 09:04

I've used a Bastion on many occasions but generally with Eldar allies. A unit of Dark Reapers and a Farseer on the battlements with a unit of Lanceborn inside the building to take has been quite effective. It can be risky though as if the building is destroyed the units inside/on top will generally take a pounding.

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Timatron
Sybarite
Timatron

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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 02 2013, 15:39

You absolutely can target unoccupied buildings. Also, I'm not talking about a few 'suicide squads', I'm talking about a full-drop, max squads Salamanders army with 6-8 pods. I can't see how any of those squads could be described as 'suicide', they'' drop down, blow up as many vehicles as they have combat squads, kill 2/3 of the passengers from explosions due to adding 3 to damage chart and destroy your whole army if you give them a chance.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 02 2013, 15:43

@Timatron wrote:
You absolutely can target unoccupied buildings.
Sorry but you cannot.

BRB, Pg93 wrote:
You cannot attack an unoccupied building (with shooting or in close combat).

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What do we think of Bastions? YhBv3Wk
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Timatron
Sybarite
Timatron

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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 03 2013, 02:40

Oh, never spotted that.
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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 04 2013, 16:54

I've ran a Bastion a few times and have played against them too. Bastions, in my opinion, depend a lot on how your local group plays.

Bastions are very effective if you opponent doesn't know the building rules or decides to focus only on the unit manning the battlements. If your opponent has the ability to affect AV14 (particularly S9 and S10 shots), he could potentially be more effective focusing on shooting the Bastion direction in in order to clear out the unit inside as well as attempt to collapse it. In addition, if a unit is manning the battlements, it's considered occupied and thus becomes an eligible target - meaning a weapon destroyed result COULD eliminate any of the emplaced weapons, including the gun on top. Furthermore, grenades can wreck havoc on a unit inside too.

That said, if your usual opponents aren't fielding the firepower to touch AV14, Bastions work well. Just remember to place it properly in your deployment zone so you can deploy into and onto it. I had an opponent once place the door outside of his deployment zone and the TO said he couldn't deploy into it then, had to move into/onto it first turn.
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colinsherlow
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 05 2013, 00:02

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2013/12/rules-check-taking-on-fortifications.html?m=1

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hydranixx
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 05 2013, 05:08

They don't seem particularly like what the Dark Eldar value, but they could have their use provided you aren't against a plethora of melta's.

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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 05 2013, 14:59

One different option I'm playing trying out with all of my armies is a single or pair of Vengeance Weapon Batteries. They don't offer a lot that DE don't already have (since you can either give each on a Battle Cannon (S8 AP3 Ordnance 1 Large Blast) or a Punisher Gatling Gun (S5 Ap- Heavy 20). If you're curious of the full rules - do a Google Image search for the model and the datasheet that comes in the box will show up.

What they DO offer DE is an uncompromising distraction since they are impassable buildings that are fully automated and still are large enough to provide some cover to our troops. They cannot be taken over by the enemy and can be deployed fully at the table half mark (if you want). The automated firing rules are limiting, but produces an annoyance to my opponents.

Are they better than a bastion? Point-wise, probably not however, it does provide a tactical annoyance to your opponent that doesn't force you to keep a unit at so that it can be effective.

In a similar line of thinking is the Firestorm Redoubt. It's a little under double the points of a Quad Gun Bastion (Google Images FTW again) but provides 2 Independent Heavy 2, Twin-linked Icarus Lascannons that are again on automated firing. While the guns are on manual firing, the redoubt does have a building the can be occupied and there's no ruling on if occupying such would change who has control of the guns or not (hopefully it'll be clarified in Stronghold Assault tomorrow). Regardless, the building doesn't have to be occupied for the guns to do what the guns do.


All 3 (Bastion, VWBs, Firestorm Redoubts) fit a different purpose on the battlefield. How they fit into a DE list i'm still working on; however, they do provide some interesting options than just the 4 fortifications found in the rule book.
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PostSubject: Re: What do we think of Bastions?   What do we think of Bastions? I_icon_minitime

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