THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
JackKnife01
Sybarite
JackKnife01

Posts : 360
Join date : 2013-11-16
Location : Planning my next attack.

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 14:23

I say Agonsier, just love using them. Still I say blast all things within six inches of the thing, then lock it in combat and make it a nice piece of scenary for a few turns. If you really want to, make a Wrack an Acolythe and give him an Agnoiser. Make him take the 5++ and and wound him on 4's. That see yourself needing to get into close quarters combat.

As for the Chaos units in this Army List, I would say shoot the Hell Drake with Dark Lances. Noise Marines....Dump a Venom or two into them. Once you have knocked two of the bigger threats, which should take a turn or two, then kill the Obls, and try to kill off the Riptide at your own pace. Make your opponent fight your war, do not fight theirs.

Remember "Appear weak where you are strong, and strong where you are weak."


Last edited by JackKnife01 on Fri Nov 29 2013, 14:39; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 14:29

@JackKnife01 wrote:
I say Agonsier, just love using them. Still I say blast all things within six inches of the thing, then lock it in combat and make it a nice piece of scenary for a few turns. If you really want to, make a Wrack an Acolythe and give him an Agnoiser. Make him take the 5++ and and wound him on 4's. That see yourself needing to get into close quarters combat.
The Agoniser is only AP3 so a Riptide will be getting its 2+ armour save.

_________________
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
JackKnife01
Sybarite
JackKnife01

Posts : 360
Join date : 2013-11-16
Location : Planning my next attack.

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 14:40

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@JackKnife01 wrote:
I say Agonsier, just love using them. Still I say blast all things within six inches of the thing, then lock it in combat and make it a nice piece of scenary for a few turns. If you really want to, make a Wrack an Acolythe and give him an Agnoiser. Make him take the 5++ and and wound him on 4's. That see yourself needing to get into close quarters combat.
The Agoniser is only AP3 so a Riptide will be getting its 2+ armour save.
Crap forgot about that and the new power weapon nurf with this new edition. Liquifier Gun go.
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 16:00

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
I'm surprised that you think this is even a remotely viable solution, and your maths is just plain wrong. Each venom gets 12 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds. Across 3 venoms, that's 12 wounds, statistically two failed saves.
Each Venom has a 66% chance to inflict a wound on a Riptide after saves.

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
And the OP has stated he's only running 2 venoms, so that's 1.3 unsaved wounds.
I will admit I mentally switched it to 3 Venoms, but, again, will note the OP hasn't given us an army list because, currently, his stated lists lacks any Troops. If he really is only running 2 Venoms and no more then some Lances can fill the Void, and if he can't manage that then the issue is in his list not his tactics.

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
The duke's setup won't get anywhere near it as you'd need to be within 30" to get shots on it on turn 1
Which is why I indicated that it would get the shots in on Turn 2, I never said it would happen on Turn 1 and did not do so for exactly the reasons you mention here. I agree, the Duke's boat is unlikely to be effective on Turn 1.

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
And none of this takes into account the potential for the riptide to loiter out of range, or if it has drones etc to protect it, or if it has FnP.
I took the Drones into account with my writeup and mentioned them many times. If the Riptide is loitering out of range enough to be able to evade what I'm discussing then it is also loitering out of range enough to be ignored and at that stage I'd advise doing exactly that.

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Every time I've tried to kill a riptide with poisoned shooting because "it's the most effective way to do it", I've barely left a scratch. You're better off ignoring it as it can only screw with one thing a turn.
Regardless, poison does still remain the best way for a DE army to put wounds on a Riptide. Every time I've needed to kill a RIptide poison has worked exactly as expected.

I will agree that a Riptide can only kill one thing a turn. Most of the Tau/CSM force can only do the same - the question is if the Riptide is more assured of doing a kill than other stuff, if the Riptide is vulnerable to being attacked earlier than other stuff, and if the Riptide is capable of being killed efficiently compared to other stuff. When his other major threats are Oblits (who, functionally, are just as hard to kill as a Riptide except they can get a cover save easier) and Noise Marines (who are a 3+ instead of a 2+, are able to get cover, and have distinctly more limited range), and Heldrakes (who are harder to kill and not on the table till Turn 2 at the earliest) I really do think the Riptide is an optimal early target and that the methods I discussed are a good way to deal with it.

_________________
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 K93hWhs
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
JackKnife01
Sybarite
JackKnife01

Posts : 360
Join date : 2013-11-16
Location : Planning my next attack.

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 17:03

I would think the Oblits and the Noise Marines are a more pressing target. Easier to kill, the Marines are, and the Oblits are somewhat the same. True they have 2 wounds, but shoot them with enough Posion they will die...Better yet Dark Lance them as well. Get rid of their armor and pick wounds off of them.

I think half the problem it seems he is having (and seemingly we are having problems on agreeing on) is Target Prioity.
I Say from Turn 1:
1. Oblits
2. Noise Marines
3. Anything with Marker Lights
4. Riptide
Turn 2+
1. Hell Drake (When it arrives)
2. Oblits
3. Noise Marines
4. Anything with Marker Lites.
5. Riptides
Back to top Go down
Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 17:15

@JackKnife01 wrote:
I would think the Oblits and the Noise Marines are a more pressing target. Easier to kill, the Marines are, and the Oblits are somewhat the same. True they have 2 wounds, but shoot them with enough Posion they will die...Better yet Dark Lance them as well. Get rid of their armor and pick wounds off of them.

I think half the problem it seems he is having (and seemingly we are having problems on agreeing on) is Target Prioity.
I Say from Turn 1:
1. Oblits
2. Noise Marines
3. Anything with Marker Lights
4. Riptide
Turn 2+
1. Hell Drake (When it arrives)
2. Oblits
3. Noise Marines
4. Anything with Marker Lites.
5. Riptides
No.

T1 was ok but T2 is not. Don't shoot the Helldrake as you could easily waste whole turn of shooting and nothing happens. Take out the easiest targets compared to their destructive power and begin there. Try to maneuver behind his Helldrakes to reduce their efficiency.

Darklight is perfect to shoot oblits. poison to Noise marines.

_________________
New Dark Eldar in Tournaments: Wins: 17 Draws: 2 Losses: 8
ETC 2013 DE/Eldar player (4th)
ETC 2014 Coach (16th)
ETC 2015 Captain, Eldar/DE (10th)
Painting blog
Back to top Go down
Mandor
Kabalite Warrior
Mandor

Posts : 176
Join date : 2011-12-14
Location : The Netherlands

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 17:40

I agree. Without any proper AA, you are just wasting shots at the Helldrake. You need to destroy a Helldrake in a single turn and I don't see that happening.
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 17:53

@JackKnife01 wrote:
I would think the Oblits and the Noise Marines are a more pressing target. Easier to kill, the Marines are, and the Oblits are somewhat the same.
Oblits are 2+ 5++
Riptides are 2+ 5++

Oblits, if Nurgle (As most sane players make them) are immune to any ID effect from darklight.
Riptides are immune to ID via Darklight.
Oblits can get cover saves from Darklight.

The only way that a Riptide is "harder" to kill than an Oblit is if the Oblit isn't Nurgle, or if the Riptide has up the Nova Sheild. If the Oblits are in cover (as, I submit, most would be) then they are harder to kill than Riptides.

DE, as an army, generally don't care what your toughness is, we care what your armor and invulnerable save are.

I will agree that we can kill the Noise Marines a bit easier than Oblits or Riptides, but I also don't think that actually makes the Noise Marines a higher priority target. If it's an objective game and they are being run as Troops I would, again, move them into a higher bracket albeit only if I can wipe the unit. Otherwise it depends on the board layout and squad composition, as Noise Marines can potentially be better at killing stuff than Oblits depending on range, but are likely inferior to a Riptide regardless.

_________________
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 K93hWhs
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
JackKnife01
Sybarite
JackKnife01

Posts : 360
Join date : 2013-11-16
Location : Planning my next attack.

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 19:04

I usually never have to worry about enemy flyers. So forgive the memory loss on ground to air. Not looking to ID, though it would be nice, just looking for wounds that ignore armor.
Back to top Go down
Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 19:20

@JackKnife01 wrote:
I usually never have to worry about enemy flyers. So forgive the memory loss on ground to air. Not looking to ID, though it would be nice, just looking for wounds that ignore armor.
Darklight is a great tool versus Riptides.
It is a very bad tool versus Shield drones.

As I noted, you shoot poison at the Riptide, but you can (and maybe should) shoot Darklight at it if there are no Shield Drones left on it (Also, frankly, if it has Nova Shield up I'd still stick to poison).

Darklight is useful, however, in dealing with a wide range of possible targets, not just the Riptide. If the enemy has any tanks or transports they're very well used there first, as poison is useless against those targets.

_________________
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 K93hWhs
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 L1RsnGX
The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles.
Back to top Go down
Panic_Puppet
Wych
avatar

Posts : 506
Join date : 2012-12-30

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 23:06

Darklight vs Riptides has its uses - if you can force it to keep shielding, then you can stop it from doing rude things to your forces by nova-charging its weapons (also making it possible to take it's own wounds). There's a great chess term, 'the threat is stronger than its execution' which fits well here; you don't necessarily need to focus your darklight on the riptide for it to have an effect. You just need to present the threat of darklight; if your opponent chooses to leave his riptide vulnerable then darklight it to death. If your opponent chooses to shield his riptide then he's weakened its effectiveness, and you can pick on something ELSE with your darklight, and your opponent has to make the decision again next turn. You gain more value from threatening the riptide with lances than you do from actually shooting it with said lances.

_________________
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 TDxlYzL
Back to top Go down
Elzadar
Sybarite
Elzadar

Posts : 273
Join date : 2012-09-11

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 29 2013, 23:11

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Darklight vs Riptides has its uses - if you can force it to keep shielding, then you can stop it from doing rude things to your forces by nova-charging its weapons (also making it possible to take it's own wounds). There's a great chess term, 'the threat is stronger than its execution' which fits well here; you don't necessarily need to focus your darklight on the riptide for it to have an effect. You just need to present the threat of darklight; if your opponent chooses to leave his riptide vulnerable then darklight it to death. If your opponent chooses to shield his riptide then he's weakened its effectiveness, and you can pick on something ELSE with your darklight, and your opponent has to make the decision again next turn. You gain more value from threatening the riptide with lances than you do from actually shooting it with said lances.
This

_________________
Kabal of the Forsaken Masquerade
Coven of the Flayed Man
Back to top Go down
hydranixx
Wych
hydranixx

Posts : 583
Join date : 2013-11-26

New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 06 2013, 05:40

Mind = Blown.

I appreciate you writing that down, Panic Puppet. It makes so much sense, but it takes someone to actually say it before the cogs in my brain start ticking and understanding it.

_________________
A Song Of Vice And Liars - The Cynic's Sect hobby blog

"Of course you should fight fire with fire! You should fight everything with fire."
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.   New to the Dark Eldar, could use help. - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
New to the Dark Eldar, could use help.
Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: