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 Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?

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Mayk0l
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Mayk0l

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PostSubject: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 09 2013, 18:42

Hey guys!

So I bought a box of Witch Elves from the new Dark Elf range and some Wyches to convert them into awesome Wyches, but now I'm torn up what kind of unit to make. I read people fielding them in small numbers as retinue to an Archon on a Venom, I've seen other people use them in numbers of 10 to get the most out of the Wych weapons.. Some people mentioned fielding them so that you can use three Nets and Impalers to use in a challenge, but then I've read others claiming this strategy is obsolete in sixth edition.

How do you field your Hekatrixes?
What do you feel are the optimal equipment choices?

P.s. I realise Incubi are actually better in assault, but the new Witch Elves give us too many conversion options to ignore!
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 09 2013, 19:07

From what I've seen of the sprues I'll be interested to hear how you do with conversions - the sculpts look beautiful, but in true Dark Elf fashion it looks like they won't play well with others.

The multi-shardnet build is pretty much dead in 6th except versus MCs or Walkers, and even then is of limited value. Probably its best current use is in battling Walkers while haywiring them to death...but that's a pretty specialized build and it's not like most armies are even fielding Walkers in the current meta. So I would say the triple net combo is dead in the water.

The other thing that hurts Bloodbrides is their slot contains Trueborn (an amazing unit) and Incubi (an all around superior assault unit) and Grots (again, an all around superior assault unit) So Bloodbrides end up filling a very specific niche wherein they're probably the weakest Elite choice *and* they face the issue of regular Wyches who are...really, basically just as good, but able to score.

Now, that all said, if you want to field Bloodbrides their situation is about like this;
The only reason to take them over Wyches is because they get 3x Wych Weapons...so you should probably take 3x Wych Weapons.
In the current game Shardnets have few valid uses.
Hydraknives are pretty solid, and generate extra attacks.
Razorflails are better, but run the risk of being obsolete 1/6 of the time thanks to drug rolls.

So smart bet is Hydraknives or Razorflials.

Next off, they probably should serve as an assault death star, because if you're going small with them to save points you *really* should just be taking regular Wyches. So, pairing them up with an assault HQ makes a lot of sense. They can combo really well with a Succubus or Archon, and actually probably work better with the Archon overall as they can lock up and tarpit elite enemies better than Incubi and also are perhaps better at dealing with swarms of mooks than Incubi are, meanwhile the Archon can get them defensive grenades to help against Overwatch and can focus on bringing the squad a much needed AP2 sword to allow them to cut up Termies and Marines better. Paired with a Succubus, they can have the Syren take a PGL to help boost up the Succubi, and then just can be a pretty solid mini Deathstar that can focus on assaulting MEQs with power weapons and sawing them apart.

So, for myself, I would probably say the "optimal" Bloodbride build would look like this;

Archon w. PGL, huskblade, combat drugs(?), Shadowfield
9x Bloodbrides
- HWGs
- 3x Wych Weapons
- 1x Syren w. Venom Blade (you could honestly toy around with this, the axe, lance, and Agoniser all have potential options.
1x Raider w. upgrades of preference

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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 09 2013, 20:21

@Thor665 wrote:

Archon w. PGL, huskblade, combat drugs(?), Shadowfield
9x Bloodbrides
- HWGs
- 3x Wych Weapons
- 1x Syren w. Venom Blade (you could honestly toy around with this, the axe, lance, and Agoniser all have potential options.
1x Raider w. upgrades of preference
The wyches already have assault grenades, dont they, so I think PGL is a bit too much!
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Mayk0l
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 09 2013, 21:30

Thanks for the long response. Here's a photo of my first conversion. I had to Greenstuff some parts near the hairline, and the arms were a hard fit (Elves are a bit flimsy and the Wyches are surprisingly buff). The arms aren't as bad as they seem on this picture. Remember, half of the Wych arms are actually armour, not skin, so shoulder pads tend to 'stick out' as you can see here.

Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? 2013-110

I want to make a Succubus with a claw agoniser (the claw from the Bloodwrack Medusa but it's hard to get without buying the whole box).




As for the tactical part:
I definitely see your point of scoring Wyches. Basically, if you put a Hekatrix in there you have the same unit, minus one Wych weapon (1 in 3 or 1 in 5), but its scoring and cheaper. Worth considering I guess. I haven't lost a game with Tyranids yet ever since I added more scoring units. Also, the Wych weapons aren't that impressive either, not like Trueborn weapons (drool).

I'm going to try both when I have the unit finished. Thanks again.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 09 2013, 22:02

@Mngwa wrote:
@Thor665 wrote:

Archon w. PGL, huskblade, combat drugs(?), Shadowfield
9x Bloodbrides
- HWGs
- 3x Wych Weapons
- 1x Syren w. Venom Blade (you could honestly toy around with this, the axe, lance, and Agoniser all have potential options.
1x Raider w. upgrades of preference
The wyches already have assault grenades, dont they, so I think PGL is a bit too much!
They do lack defensive grenades however, and defensive grenades can make a substantial difference when charging into overwatch. With the PGL you can come through terrain and get a sizable save versus any incoming fire.

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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 09 2013, 22:07

@Mngwa wrote:
@Thor665 wrote:

Archon w. PGL, huskblade, combat drugs(?), Shadowfield
9x Bloodbrides
- HWGs
- 3x Wych Weapons
- 1x Syren w. Venom Blade (you could honestly toy around with this, the axe, lance, and Agoniser all have potential options.
1x Raider w. upgrades of preference
The wyches already have assault grenades, dont they, so I think PGL is a bit too much!
PGL is for the cover save. A lance might actually be pretty nifty, I doubt this unit would stay in combat for long and it'd make it even more dangerous to terminators. On the charge you're looking at what? 11 ap2 attacks at initiative six+? Then 3d6+20 attacks?

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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 09 2013, 22:11

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
@Mngwa wrote:
@Thor665 wrote:

Archon w. PGL, huskblade, combat drugs(?), Shadowfield
9x Bloodbrides
- HWGs
- 3x Wych Weapons
- 1x Syren w. Venom Blade (you could honestly toy around with this, the axe, lance, and Agoniser all have potential options.
1x Raider w. upgrades of preference
The wyches already have assault grenades, dont they, so I think PGL is a bit too much!
PGL is for the cover save. A lance might actually be pretty nifty, I doubt this unit would stay in combat for long and it'd make it even more dangerous to terminators. On the charge you're looking at what? 11 ap2 attacks at initiative six+? Then 3d6+20 attacks?
Powerlances are AP3 +1 Str on the charge not AP2
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 10 2013, 00:08

Ah crap, should have known that sounded too good to be true, just got the stats mixed up, some reason I thought it got best of both worlds for a turn. May as well equip an agonizer.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 10 2013, 00:13

The advantage of the lance is point savings for basically the same effect since, yeah, the unit should saw through non-MC stuff relatively quickly. Also, the lance combos nicely if you get the strength drug.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 10 2013, 00:23

@Mayk0l wrote:
Thanks for the long response. Here's a photo of my first conversion. I had to Greenstuff some parts near the hairline, and the arms were a hard fit (Elves are a bit flimsy and the Wyches are surprisingly buff). The arms aren't as bad as they seem on this picture. Remember, half of the Wych arms are actually armour, not skin, so shoulder pads tend to 'stick out' as you can see here.

Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? 2013-110
I would actually love it if you could take a shot or two showing the arms from different angles and how they connect to the body. Mentally I'm convinced the pose is awkward because I feel like there are upraised parts of the arm below the "shoulder" of the Eldar arms attached to it, because all the Elf bodies I saw on sprue seemed to have upraised arms and shoulders as part of the main body cast - am I crazy, or did you do something to adjust this?

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Mayk0l
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 28 2013, 21:20

It's actually not bad. It requires you to take off the plastic edges from the dark elf shoulder in order to be able to glue on the wych arms. I've done 4 now and they all look really nice. Only had to use a bit of green stuff on one or two shoulders, one of which I needed to greenstuff because I magnetised the arm in order to take off the (battle) standard.
Ill post some pictures in a project-log topic in the near future.
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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 28 2013, 23:37

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
@Mngwa wrote:
@Thor665 wrote:

Archon w. PGL, huskblade, combat drugs(?), Shadowfield
9x Bloodbrides
- HWGs
- 3x Wych Weapons
- 1x Syren w. Venom Blade (you could honestly toy around with this, the axe, lance, and Agoniser all have potential options.
1x Raider w. upgrades of preference
The wyches already have assault grenades, dont they, so I think PGL is a bit too much!
PGL is for the cover save. A lance might actually be pretty nifty, I doubt this unit would stay in combat for long and it'd make it even more dangerous to terminators. On the charge you're looking at what? 11 ap2 attacks at initiative six+? Then 3d6+20 attacks?

Give the Syren the PGL. She only had to pay 2\5 of the point value, that the archon has to pay. And a Syren is pretty solid. Comes with 5 attacks on the charge, potentially 6. That's as much as a regular CC HQ.

I have used them as an escort for my archon, and usually I took S&I as wych weapons, just to lower specific enemy CC attacks. As you usually come out of a transport, you can usually place the models about right to target specific models. Works about 0,5 times, but is useful.

Concerning your conversions, I would love to see more pictures, of different models and angels.

Sláinte!

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 11:18

Have this unit seen combat much?

My take on bloodbrides is that they can include any IC i want in Venom with 4 woman squad. Cheap and working. No upgrades beside Venom and Haywires. I think that units about 200pts are a golden standart for Dark Eldar.

Not drawing to much fire is a key.
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 12:29

Bloodbrides will also be more vulnerable to over watch, so they will probably be restricted (especially in small squads) to charging units that are already tied up or have no guns. Losing a Wych to over watch is better then losing a bloodbride, just something to think about.

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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29 2013, 12:47

@Azdrubael wrote:
Have this unit seen combat much?

My take on bloodbrides is that they can include any IC i want in Venom with 4 woman squad. Cheap and working. No upgrades beside Venom and Haywires. I think that units about 200pts are a golden standart for Dark Eldar.

Not drawing to much fire is a key.

True. The BB have worked for me. I soak up wounds from overwatch trough my archon (I haven't played Tau in a long time) but I'm staying to consider beast packs to tie up enemy units, to keep my other units from overwatch.

Reserving with adv.Aethersails is also a good way to keep it from being shot at to long.


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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 30 2013, 16:54

ran mine out yesterday:
had x9 BB with x3 hydra gauntlets + HWG + syren with pgl + aggy.
my succubus with aggy joined this unit too.
they absolutely murderised tac marines and accounted for quite a few vehicles (dreadnaught, landspeeder and a drop pod). the amount of attacks they can put out is quite sickening!
it is however, a bit overkill. between the pre-assault shooting, the succubus's aggy + syren's aggy, most of the unit was dead before the 40+ wych attacks had hit home, leaving about 8 spare wounds after the squad had been wiped.
normal wyches would have been fine for this match up, but i'd be glad of BB against blob squads and green tides!!!
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 30 2013, 19:06

All this sounds awesome, and Mayk0l your conversion is gorgeous.

BUT HOW DO YOU MANAGE TO GET YOUR WYCHES/BRIDES INTO CC???

Last time I fielded two raiders of 'em, one boat of Grots w/succubus, one backup raider (all with sails), and a squad of reavers who all pushed up together. Both boats of wyches exploded in short order leaving me with a grand total of 3/20 survivors.
I don't mean to hijack the thread, feel free to tell me off. But this is something I want to try and haven't managed to.

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csjarrat
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 30 2013, 20:00

thats the common problem mate. all i can suggest is playing on a board with plenty of LOS blocking terrain. they can't shoot you if they can't see you after all....
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 31 2013, 00:05

I go with prayer a lot. And massive redundancy. Having said that, I usually only run regular Wyches.
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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 01 2014, 21:10

Bloodbrides and wyches in 6th edition are like black widow spiders at a stomp dance: potentially very dangerous, but likely to get squashed. People don't want them to get into close combat, and preventing them from doing so is ridiculously easy.

One way to get around this is to bring lots and lots of them, so that even if you lose 2 or 3 squads you still have more. You can also save them by giving your opponent something else to worry about, such as Incubi or Grotesques. If your opponent squashes them anyway, at least you still have the other, more dangerous unit that they ignored.

I wouldn't put my HQ in with them (unless you go all wyches). They die too easily and leave your leader all alone to get shot up. Especially a Succubus, since she can't take getting shot at either.

As for wych weapons, I don't think they're so good. They cost as much as another wych, so unless your transports are full, you're probably better off spending the points on an extra wych (or bloodbride).

Finally, wyches and bloodbrides like Duke Sliscus. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them?   Hekatrix Bloodbrides, how to field them? I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 05 2014, 11:04

Personally, I have found that offering a juicier target draws fire.

Since deploying Wyches/Brides is a risk, I take the greater risk of moving my Ravagers and Warrior Raiders with them.  That has helped mask the Wyches slightly.  I've used the tactic twice and it has once resulted in the Wyches seeing combat.  It is, of course, dependent on the terrain.

The first time I did it was a shambles as I forgot to keep terrain in mind.  Learned from it and managed to get my Wyches and Kabalites to kill a squad of Noise Marines and their Rhino.  Lost bodies but the transports didn't go down so I could mount up and outflank the rest of the CSM army with the two Raiders and Ravager.

It's an even riskier tactic but I don't think you should be cautious if you're already using a risky unit. Go big or don't go at all.
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