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Dark_Kindred
Kabalite Warrior
Dark_Kindred

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PostSubject: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2013, 07:33

Fellow Archons:

They say you learn more from losing than you do winning but I would like to eek a lesson out of a win nevertheless. This passing Friday, I had a game 1500 against a Necron player that was over by the end of turn 2. It wasn't especially good dice (I only killed his three Wraiths turn 1), nor was it list building (neither side was going all out power gamer), nor especially bad decision making. Here is what happened.

His deployment consisted of:
Overlord, Cryptek, squad of Immortals and 3 Wraiths with Destroyer Lord

He had like 2 Night Scythes with large blobs of Warriors (and possibly Crypteks) and a squad of Death Marks.

Turn 1: Killed his Wraiths
Turn 2: (He gets his Death Marks as my Jet Fighter comes in from reserve)
I snipe his Destroyer Lord and badly damage his Immortals with shooting. Subsequently, I assault his Death Marks (Destroy them outright) and overrun his Overlord, Cryptek, and Immortals.

Game Over.

It was, in the words of my opponent: "The fastest game of 40k at 1500 I have played."

What sorts of questions should I be asking myself?

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CheeZe
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2013, 10:11

What were u running with and what did they do? Hard to analyze without knowing your list.

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2013, 13:30

Too much in reserve on his part.
Half his army, if not more.
You just cant do that against a fast Deldar list, we'll run you down.

A bit more detail on both lists might help.
I wouldnt have reserved anything but empty fliers and the deathmarks (who really need to be, but come on fast)
Seems a lot on HQs as well, 300pts plus

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Thor665
Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 22 2013, 15:43

Yeah, the lesson learned is that he had a poor list build and deployment and your list and deployment were less unoptimal than that.

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Dark_Kindred
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 23 2013, 00:01

Seeing as I never actually saw most of his list (him being tabled and whatnot), I'm not going to give a  perfectly accurate account.

Dark Eldar
Head Quarters
Succubus with Agonizer
Haemonculus
Farseer
Elites
5 Incubi in Raider
Troops
5 Kabalite Warriors with Blaster in Venom
5 Kabalite Warriors with Blaster in Venom
5 Kabalite Warriors with Blaster in Venom
5 Kabalite Warriors with Blaster in Venom
7 Wyches led by Hekatrix with PGL & Agonizer in Raider
5 Rangers
Heavy Support
Ravager
Ravager
Razorwing Jetfighter with Flicker Fields and Dark Lances

Dark Eldar Warlord Traits, Combat Drugs, and Psychic Powers: Conqueror of Cities, Splintermind, Guide, Prescience, and Misfortune


Necrons
HQ
Overlord with Warscythe, Mindschackle Scarabs, and the works
Destroyer Lord
Court, including a Cryptek with Veil of Darkness
Elites
Death Marks
Troops
10 Immortals
14 Warriors Night Scythe
14 Warriors in Night Scythe
Fast Attack
3 Wraiths

Necron Warlord Trait: Strategic Genius

To further clarify, I think we could have gone on b/c his Destroyer Lord had not rolled for ever living and whatever he had in reserve still had the chance to come in, although it would have been an almost assuredly lost cause. That said, he is apparently one of the better players at this particular store.

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Last edited by Dark_Kindred on Wed Oct 23 2013, 18:23; edited 1 time in total
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CheeZe
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 23 2013, 05:29

Yeah, it sounds like he simply didn't realize how hard Dark Eldar can blitzkrieg. Not enough models on the table for sure. Wish my opponents would do that.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 23 2013, 05:41

It happens less now in tournaments then it used to prior to the new Codex landing. Oh man, those were the days, not only could you be good at playing DE (an army that worked *very* well in 5th) but you'd half the time be facing netlisters who had no idea what the DE could even do. Some of their decisions or errors in target priority were laughable back then.

Still, it is funny when people say stuff like 'I didn't realize how...fast DE were' as they're sitting there on Turn 2 with your entire army in their deployment zone.
I mean, yeah, you seemed to understand we had no armor and are flying ships armored with tissue paper - what did you think we were good at? Holding objectives Wink

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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 23 2013, 13:19

Yeah, you had a list designed to over run the enemy of T2, he had a list designed to win a battle of attrition on T4

Too much on Hqs and too much in reserve.
If he lost one of the the Hqs (I'd keep destroyer), expanded his warrior squads and deployed them at the start, it would still be tough, but no where near as bad.

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Dark_Kindred
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 23 2013, 18:32

@Thor665 wrote:

I mean, yeah, you seemed to understand we had no armor and are flying ships armored with tissue paper - what did you think we were good at? Holding objectives Wink
I'm not sure if those days are long gone outside the higher end tournament circuit. To this day I have only ever seen one other person playing Dark Eldar. Once.

I also like to see my enemy get confused when I place objectives in their deployment zone.

What makes this all even worse is that I played this guy before at an 1850 point tournament. He seemed to remember half way through the beating that this had all already happened before.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 23 2013, 18:45

[quote="Dark_Kindred"]
@Thor665 wrote:
I'm not sure if those days are long gone outside the higher end tournament circuit. To this day I have only ever seen one other person playing Dark Eldar. Once.
Nah - there was a solid slice of 5th where we were top dogs.
Give it a few more years for some vets to forget and the new kids to join the mix, then it will be closer to what I'm talking about. When I was playing 5th tournies and owning face with DE it had been 10+ years since the last codex. We are not in the same situation right now.

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Dark_Kindred
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 23 2013, 19:36

@Thor665 wrote:
@Dark_Kindred wrote:
@Thor665 wrote:
I'm not sure if those days are long gone outside the higher end tournament circuit. To this day I have only ever seen one other person playing Dark Eldar. Once.
Nah - there was a solid slice of 5th where we were top dogs.
Give it a few more years for some vets to forget and the new kids to join the mix, then it will be closer to what I'm talking about. When I was playing 5th tournies and owning face with DE it had been 10+ years since the last codex. We are not in the same situation right now.
If that is the case, I look forward to the days when "I am legend."

Edit: Not Will Smith.

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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 27 2013, 07:41

Just finished my first tournament as the sole representative of the Dark Eldar! In one of my games, a spectator made a snide comment about the combat abilities of the dark kin being the equivalent of faecal matter. I enjoyed winning that game against his friend 7-3 with a combination of mobility, lethal focus fire and timely objective control. The player I bet went on to claim 2nd spot overall so I proved to be quite a costly stumbling block!
The DE are brilliant and far more gratifying to win with than any other race I've used. Opponents have to grudgingly accept that they have been outsmarted when losing to an army with AV no higher than 11 carrying troops with no armour saves. It doesn't make sense on paper that DE could be viable.  That is what hurts my opponents more than any excuse about dice.


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MordredBloodyhand
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 27 2013, 09:14

I like it....me im happy to lose the game if my Incubi and Archon can crush a unit of TEQs just for the look on his face. Smile....I also love it when a unit or two of Kabalites in Raiders poison to death a big unit of bikes.....very satisfying ....Twisted Evil 
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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Crushing Victory   Crushing Victory I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 27 2013, 20:05

I won 2/5 games against players that have played far more often and longer than I have. The margin of defeat often came down to one primary objective or a secondary objective point difference. Dark Eldar don't really hold objectives well... I never got wiped off the table though. Conversely, my margins of victory never made double digits like the guys that finished top by tabling their opponents and netting maximum points.
Time constraints meant that no game ever went the full course, 5 turns at the most. This is an issue for me. I have so many models to move around from 1500-2000 pts compared to power armoured forces that can fit everything onto a codex!

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