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 Cheeky Little 600pointer

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Stwess
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PostSubject: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2013, 18:06

Hey guys, got a quick game coming up with a friend this weekend and am looking to take a semi-competitive list, and as such avoiding venom spam.

Just wondered what you guys think

HQ
Heam w/ V Blade - 55pts

Troops
5 Warriors in Venom /w Dual Cannons - 110pts

5 Wracks w/ Liquifier Gun in Raider w/ Dark Lance - 120pts

5 Wracks w/ Liquifier Gun in Raider w/ Dark Lance - 120pts

Fast Attack
2 Beastmasters w/ 4 Razorwing Flocks - 84pts

Heavy Support
Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances - ...pts

Total = 594pts

Thinking I might drop the Heams Venom Blade to give the Ravager Night Shields. Other than that I think I have enough variation to make things interesting for both of us.

Any thoughts?

ST
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2013, 18:27

Since you don't want the list to be too competitive, what sort of thoughts/advice are you looking for?

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Stwess
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PostSubject: Re: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2013, 19:28

Whilst I'm not looking for super-competitive the list still needs to pose a threat and challenge him. We are looking for a decent game, I just don't want to go over the top i.e. Warriors in Venoms, min HQ, Ravagers and nothing else. I guess what I'm looking for is something that is competitive but avoids that kind of (what I would term) win at all costs (boring?) sort of build.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2013, 19:58

I'll admit I have a hard time understanding the line between 'competitive' and 'win at all costs' because to my mind 'win at all costs' means cheating and/or rule bending and/or modeling to advantage and 'competitive' means simply 'building a list likely able to defeat other lists you expect to compete against.'

Looking at the list with a goal of competitive in my mind, and just wanting to field kind of what you are fielding;

I think the Beast Pack makes little to no sense with the rest of the list.
I think the Warrior squad is weak.
I think the Wracks are wasted being Wracks since they're an assault unit that will likely be too small to assault much.

I'd probably advocate dropping the Beasts entirely.
Then would use the saved points to add a Blaster to the Warrior squad, making them a multi-target threat, and would also add extra bodies to the Wrack squads, especially the one the Haem was going with, to make them a functional assault tool if you want/need it.

A Liquifier on the Haem wouldn't hurt either, if you're templating with the Wracks might as well be templating with him too.

Dropping the V.Blade is all about whether or not you want the Wracks to be assaulting.
I think the assault tool will be more helpful than the N.Sheilds on the whole with this list, but they aren't a bad upgrade option.

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Seelenberührer
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PostSubject: Re: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2013, 20:09

Re: the distinction between "competitive" and "waac", I think it's probably a function of how much fun your army is to play both for you and your opponent. True spam lists (as opposed to lists that build in a lot of redundancy) are, for instance, something I find pretty boring from both ends.

WAAC might also include a certain degree of rules-lawyering (that is, at the expense of a good and sporting game). But cheating isn't WAAC. Cheating is cheating.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2013, 20:49

Cheating is WAAC, isn't it? Win at ALL costs? If WAAC doesn't have cheating, then what is the difference between competitive and WAAC? Because if the only answer is 'lack of spam' well...spam is competitive, and people with issues of spam are as functional as people who want to build fluffy lists - they're applying made up theoretical limits to their list building, which is by definition not competitive.

I think WAAC implies something beyond simply a list that is good at winning, I submit that category includes cheating and while I may agree not all WAAC are cheaters, I would submit all cheaters are WAAC unless they're cheating themselves to make it easier for someone to beat them, but that's getting pedantic.

Edit: as an addendum to this thought, allow me to present this concept;

I build a Chaos Thousand Sons Army.
I field multiple Rubric Marines units.
That is spam.
It is also fluffy.
It is not competitive.
It is not WAAC

Spam is not inherently competitive or WAAC or fluffy - it is any and all of them depending how it is used. I have played against fun spam armies and against not fun spam armies. Usually when people complain about spam what they mean, in my opinion is, 'fielding multiples of really good units.

That is actually being competitive and spamming to be competitive. But the issue there is the competitive nature of the list, not that it is spam.
I don't think anyone would accuse me of spam if I fielded 6 units of 20 Grots in my Gretchin Rebellion Ork army - nor should they (nor should they find the match 'boring' because Grots are auto-awesome on cruise control)

That's why I don't consider spam to be part of WAAC.

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Stwess
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PostSubject: Re: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09 2013, 22:24

Fair points, I kinda through the beastmasters in there on a whim

How about something like:

HQ
Haemonculus w/ Venom Blade and Liquifier Gun

Troops
5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons - 125pts

5 Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ 2 Splinter Cannons - 125pts

9 Wracks w/ Liquifier Gun in Raider w/ Dark Lance

Heavy Support
Ravager w/ Dark Lance

Total = 580pts

Edging towards venom spam but there you go. I can see a natural list progression for this up to 1k and beyond though.
What would you do with the extra points?

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PostSubject: Re: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2013, 00:22

I see three options though the gentlemen here generally give better advice. With 20 points you can:

Buy a flicker field for your ravager and raider.

Buy a piece of arcane wargear for your Haemonculus. You didn't say what kind of army your friend was playing but orb of despair and shattershard could be good choices, respectively. Casket of fleansing is always fun too.

And on that note, again you didn't mention what kind of army your friend was playing but you could upgrade one of your wracks to an acothyst. To take a challenge for any warlords that might pop yours like a zit and award an easy VP.

Were it me I'd put a FF on the ravager and upgrade a wrack. Since your raider exploding isn't going to cause much hurt.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Cheeky Little 600pointer   Cheeky Little 600pointer I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10 2013, 15:09

a power weapon wouldnt be a bad option on the haemie. I would prefer an axe, but a sword could be used as you have FC with them.

The acothyst would also be a good buy, just for the extra attack and you can give him a venom blade or something to give you what you lost with the weapon exchange on the haemie.

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