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 Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks

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WeeDawgNYC
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PostSubject: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 10 2011, 20:27

What is the strength value of a haywire grenade vs tanks?
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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 10 2011, 20:44

There is no S value. They have special rules as to what they do vs tanks if you are successful in hitting the tank.

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GrenAcid
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 10 2011, 20:46

Non? they have special rule against tanks but no str imo.

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 10 2011, 22:07

They don't have a strength, but a fixed chance to glance / penetrate, regardless of AV and with 2/3 glance and 1/6 penetration chance it's a pretty good chance.

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WeeDawgNYC
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 10 2011, 22:14

Guys they are normal grenades (offensive) which gives them s4. It clearly states its resolved as normal (period) THEN you roll an ADDITIONAL die. Thats the mistake that most of you DE playes make or why would it say "resolve as normal" if they didnt have a strength value..lol

reread your dex carefully guys, your cheating yourselves. (the purpose for my post was to crrate awareness & to see how many of us really know our army)
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 10 2011, 22:52

Chance for double glance like with Haywire Blasters? Cool!

Wyches +1

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 10 2011, 23:02

Haywire grenades are not, repeat NOT, offensive grenades.
Why?
Because nowhere in their rules are they described that way. Haywire grenades don't use the BRB rules for offensive grenades, but their own and in these rules there is exactly described, how they work.
"Haywire grenades are used for disabling or crippling enemy vehicles. They send out a powerfull electromagnetic pulse that shorts out and destroys electrical circuits. These grenades can be used as normal to attack vehicles. Roll a D6 for each hit scored to determine the effect on the target vehicle. (...)" (DE_C p.56)

Why would it say "resolves as normal" if they didn't have a strength value?
Easy, because they use the same rules as all grenades do, but not any from other grenades.
"Grenades have to be clamped or placed so as to inflict enough damage, so each model using them can only ever make one attack, regardless of the number of Attacks on their profile and any bonus attacks." (BRB p.63)
So haywire grenade attacks are made as all grenade attacks are made, following the general rules above, they don't follow the special rules for offensive grenades.

Additionally:
"If a Haywire blaster hits a vehicle, resolve its effects as normal. Then roll a further D6. (...)" DE_C p.58)

Unlike the Haywire blaster the D6 of the Haywire grenades is not an effect additionally to a strength hit, it is the result of it's hit.



@WeeDawgNYC wrote:
It clearly states its resolved as normal (period) THEN you roll an ADDITIONAL die.
Dark Eldar Codex wrote:
used as normal to attack vehicles. Roll a D6 for each hit scored

Isn't it funny that espacially the parts you capitalized in your version are not part off the original?



reread your dex carefully guy, your cheating everyone else. (the purpose for my post was to create awareness & to see how few you really know about your army)
[no offense, but if you post very agressive sentences you should be able to back them up]

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WeeDawgNYC
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 00:10

Look Tiri, I dont what makes you the Rules God but in the warhammer world all grenades fit into 1 of 2 types defensive & offensive ok (yes its true) & being that its not labled as defensive it is obviously offensive which thn must have a stregnth value if they are used as an attack on vehicles & if not then why only 1 attck each & not the total of attacks of the model equipped with them.

Now Im sure it might have went over your head & based on your reply I can tell your the rype that hates to be proven wrong but I have news for you pal Im right & your wrong so go on with your way of playing but if you look carefully at the 4th sentence in the Hawwire Grenade entry on page 56 you will clearly see it says you may use them as normal. how are grenades used?..lol

Sorry Charlie...lolololol
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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 00:32

First off both of you need to watch your tones. This site is to remain a friendly atmosphere and I will not have aggressive members mucking it up.


Now onto the topic on hand. Warhammer is a permissive rules set. Meaning that unless something specifically says you can do something you are not allowed to do it. Since Haywire Nades are not listed as offensive grenades and have their own rules for working out combat results they do not have a S value.

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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 00:42

@WeeDawng
Tell me one thing, where you got that idea they have S4??....it might be S6....why?? cuz we have several kinds of offensive grenades....where in our dex is writen wich one we use?? NO WHERE.

Im with Tiri Rana on that, haywire granades dosnt have Str value, firstly dex dosnt say so, secondly its common sence(how emp blast can harm/stun living being??)

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 01:12

@WeeDawgNYC wrote:
Look Tiri, I dont what makes you the Rules God but in the warhammer world all grenades fit into 1 of 2 types defensive & offensive ok (yes its true) & being that its not labled as defensive it is obviously offensive which thn must have a stregnth value if they are used as an attack on vehicles & if not then why only 1 attck each & not the total of attacks of the model equipped with them.
I'm the rule good, because I in fact read the rules I quote. You said all grenades are either offensive or defensive, but why does the BRB state that: "What follows are some of the most common types of grenades used in assaults." ?!
It doesen't say these are all grenades, it just says they are the most common ones and so, of course, there have to be grenades, that are neither assault, nor devensive to make this sentence true. In fact there are others, meltabombs for example or krak grenades. If a grenade is either assault or defensive it either says so in its entry (see snare mines) or it is mentioned in the BRB paragraph (frag, plasma and photon grenades)

Why only one attack?
"Grenades have to be clamped or placed so as to inflict enough damage, so each model using them
can only ever make one attack, regardless of the number of Attacks on their profile and any bonus attacks."
Thats why! The rules tell you to.


@WeeDawgNYC wrote:

Now Im sure it might have went over your head & based on your reply I can tell your the rype that hates to be proven wrong but I have news for you pal Im right & your wrong so go on with your way of playing but if you look carefully at the 4th sentence in the Hawwire Grenade entry on page 56 you will clearly see it says you may use them as normal. how are grenades used?..lol

Sorry Charlie...lolololol

Maybe I'm the type that hates to be proven wrong, but if you read some of my posts I'm always open for ratinal and meaningfull arguments, and even disprove my own arguments, if I think I got something wrong.

Grenades are used as told by the rules. Nothing in this sentences implies you could use the strength of a different type of grenades, Meltabombs don't use assault strength, nor do Krak grenades, why should Haywire grenades? Besides that you want them to?

The sentence in the Haywire blaster's description tells us to resolve its effects as normal and then roll an additional D6, the Haywire grenade's tells us they can be used to attack vehicles as normal and then what happens if we hit.

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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 17:02

@WeeDawgNYC wrote:
Look Tiri, I dont what makes you the Rules God but in the warhammer world all grenades fit into 1 of 2 types defensive & offensive ok (yes its true) & being that its not labled as defensive it is obviously offensive which thn must have a stregnth value if they are used as an attack on vehicles & if not then why only 1 attck each & not the total of attacks of the model equipped with them.

By that logic, as they are not labelled as offensive grenades so they must be defensive Laughing

Seriously though - the codex clearly tells you what to do with them and how they function... rolls to hit (as per the BRB and the vehicles speed) then roll a d6 for each hit... thats all. The end!

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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 26 2011, 02:47

I'm with the majority here;

They are used as normal to attack.
Then they have special rules for how they damage.

Haywire grenades are not classified as any of the grenades listed in the rulebook for damage - they are not assault, defensive, krak, or melta. Therefore they lack the ability to do damage per the rules for attacking with grenades. Thankfully, they have their own chart that overrules that and allows them to do super awesome damage.

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WeeDawgNYC
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 26 2011, 02:58

Thor this thread is over 2 weeks old. thanks
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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 26 2011, 17:25

Dont backseat Mod.

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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 27 2011, 05:04

@Baron Tordeck wrote:
Dont backseat Mod.


Excuse Me?

This was my post bud, so dont take it so serious.. I am now starting to believe you have an issue with me. & I dont suggest you continue in the route that you are. I said Thanks & Its amazing that you didnt get up & "warn" him before I posted. Or were you sleeping on the job?...lolol
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PostSubject: Re: Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks   Stregnth value of haywire grenades vs tanks I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 27 2011, 18:53

You need to learn to read the rules and show a bit more respect to the staff of this forum.

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