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 Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 09 2011, 05:03

Ok, First up - i agree its to expensive and has some issues... but hear me out...

Lets look at the good and bad...

BAD
Very Expensive
No Aerial Assault
Must have vect plus 9 other models to start the game
no vehicle upgrades available
Not able to deploy in Dawn of War

GOOD
3 Dark lances in the HQ section - not available in any other way here
AV13 - even if it is open topped

At a glance, its a heavy NO to using it... but i can see some uses never the less... basically its another ravager - yes its slower, 6" compared to 12" but its harder to kill. If you run 8 wyches plus vect and a haemy - by the wyches a raider and have the whole unit disembark and embark the raider turn 1...

Sure its double the cost of a ravager but its the only way to get DL in the HQ section of the list!

Has anyone tried it at all?

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abjectus
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 09 2011, 10:31

I am working on a conversion for one, only see use in very large games. I'll just use it as ornate raider for archon in smaller games, with extra dark lances detached. It is only way to start harlequins in transport, not sure if vect with 9 harlequins is a good reason to take it though. In apoc game with eldar allies, vect w/ small seer council, rerolls for shadow field Very Happy, might be worth points then.
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Radium
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 09 2011, 13:05

@Massaen wrote:
O If you run 8 wyches plus vect and a haemy - by the wyches a raider and have the whole unit disembark and embark the raider turn 1...

Remember you can't disembark and embark in the same turn... So you'd have to stand on the field for a single turn, and in your second turn when you embark you can't go flat out with the raider. All in all not very useful.
I think mounting a shooty unit works best for the Dais (trueborn with lots of splintercannons and carbines?), that way you can move 6" and fire both the Dais' weapons and the passenger's weapons. Vect can either swap transports or stay inside and pulverize stuff with his orbs.

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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 09 2011, 23:20

Dunno, just a maxed squad of blasterborn, for lulz try this:

4 blasterborns 2 dl's and 3 ablavative wounds, first turn flat out, hope to not die ? (200 points for av 13 open topped is crap btw) next turn hop Vect out and he does his grenade/assault prob wipes a unit , sit the Dias still and open up with 9 lance weps on something ?

Not that I would recommend this for anything other than a bit of a gas.

The dais needs ariel assault and both night and flickerfields, it might be worth taking then, currently it sadly one of the few suckfail things in this book.


Edit- and a shock prow would be immense (and fitting)

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 09 2011, 23:26

Indeed, lack of upgrade options suck. Who gave "VALID" stamp on that crap (ie. this part of FAQ)? This is why GW should hire more people in GD department so actual authors can clarify rules.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 10 2011, 02:04

AV13 in a world of auto cannons and missiles is ok... not great but ok. Around a 6% chance for a space marine with a ML to destroy it...

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GreySeerZ
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 03:51

@Massaen wrote:
AV13 in a world of auto cannons and missiles is ok... not great but ok. Around a 6% chance for a space marine with a ML to destroy it...

And then consider that space wolves will be rocking at least 15 missiles, and my biker SM army is capable of bringing 18, and I just don't see it surviving, especially when there are weapons much more capable of taking on armor 13 in most armies.
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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 05:10

I'm waiting on getting some more spending cash, but I'll also be converting my own. I'll never use it probably, but I want one.
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furyan
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 10:11

I fielded Vect and the Dias in our local GT of 1850 points and its not as bad as everyone thinks. The Dias is very reliable as Vect delivery system. AV13 is enough to deliver Vect where he should be as compared to a regular AV10 raider, which gets shot down turn 1 (especially when they know Vect is inside). And once Vect is deployed and killing, the Dias joins the other ravagers at tank hunting. Not too shabby, earned me best general.
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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 11 2011, 18:13

@furyan wrote:
I fielded Vect and the Dias in our local GT of 1850 points…

What squad did you use to join him?

I am playing with it in my mind but I am totally unsure who I would use it with. The Dias is no different than a ravager from the last edition codex which I used all the time anyway (except being twice the cost) so I am used to the mechanics. 6" movement and 36" range is nothing to sneeze at, you'd be surprised at what can get into range with it.

@Local_Ork wrote:
Indeed, lack of upgrade options suck. Who gave "VALID" stamp on that crap (ie. this part of FAQ)?

Probably Matt Ward.
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furyan
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 12 2011, 00:55

@Grumpy Kwi

8 wyches and an archon with shadowfield and agoniser (But maybe I should have used an haemonculus instead of the archon and upgraded a wych into a hekatrix for the agonizer). The survivability of the Dias was commendable. I think it was because of target saturation, my opponents at the tourney only half-heartedly shot at the Dias because the 6 venoms and 3 ravagers were all equal threats to them thinking those were easier targets.

And besides, a stormraven is also priced at 200 with only AV 12. Maybe the small trade-off is that the Dias is open-topped. For me it's a steal because being open-topped has its own advantages. And as Massaen pointed out, it gives the opportunity to be able to field 4 ravagers because it is in the HQ section.
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a1elbow
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 12 2011, 02:09

I think the Dias is pretty dumb, but since it doesn't move and fire as well as our other vehicles, I'd try to gimmick up a list with a double DL TB squad in it. Jump Vect out and get him working with another squad. Then you have a AV13 gunboat with 5 DLs.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think?   Dais of Destruction - not as sucky as we think? I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 20 2011, 03:24

@Massaen wrote:
Sure its double the cost of a ravager but its the only way to get DL in the HQ section of the list!
It's basically an orange - but you pay twice as much for an orange...!!! I fail to see why that should excite me when I can have two oranges instead.

Also - let's assess the gain of the Dias - it's a Ravager and I "want" a Ravager in the HQ slot?
I can take an Archon w. Blaster w. Court of Archon (minimal) in a Raider w. FF for 220 getting me a weak Ravager (that can dual target). If I really wanted a Ravager and had already maxed out my other slots, that's what I'd do first.

The Dias is...maybe okay...as long as you really want to run Vect in the list. Even then it's probably not as good as running Vect in something else - simple because with something else you're not paying 200 points for a glorified transport that won't be doing what a Ravager should be doing till at least Turn 2, maybe 3 depending when you manage your assault with Vect. Up until then it should be going flat out or at least 12" setting up the assault with the uber expensive IC it's lugging - so it's not doing the job of a Ravager.

I consider it probably the single worst option in the entire Codex, personally. I'd love to be proven wrong, as then I can stop running my Dias model as a Ravager - but I don't foresee it having a purpose outside of casual play.
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