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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 12:28

So apparently the winner of the NOVA OPEN (not the invitational which was won by Eldar/Tau) was a Tau/Tau Enclave army.

His army revolved around a normal riptide joined by the special character riptide, joined by an allied Tau commander with the ignore cover and re-roll to hit systems. Pretty much giving him a mega monster unit that can put out two twinlinked S8 AP2 large blasts that ignore cover (both having the earth cast array meaning that the unit can also reliably rock a 3++. Sounds like a hilariously strong combo.

Thoughts?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 12:38

I assume the Nova FAQ must have ruled that the Farsight Enclave rules on signature systems only apply to the Enclave portion of your list. Otherwise, the allied Tau Commander would not be able to get the signature systems for rerolls to hit and ignore cover.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 13:17

I believe so.

Here's the invitational leader board.

Here's the open leader board.

Out of 32 players 16 were either Tau or Eldar primary, 3 of the armies that didn't have tau or eldar as a primary detachment had them as allies. There were no DE primary armies and only 1 DE allied detachment.

In the open out of the 223 players 66 were either Tau or Eldar, 18 of the armies that didn't have tau or eldar as a primary detachment had them as allies. There were 7 armies with DE as a primary detachment.

Daemons were pretty popular too.

Looks like Tau/Eldar/Daemons are the new meta.

Shocked

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 14:03

Will see what happens when the new SM Codex hits. Hopefully will have more of an impact than the DA one did!

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 14:07

Yeah DA were like a drop in the ocean!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 14:17

Tony Kopach, who I think won the last 2 years and has picked up a few other big tournament wins, didn't fare so well this year. 11th in the Open and 17th in the Invitational with his IG/SW army.

Also surprising that Necrons showed quite poorly, with 15th in both competitions being their highest placing.

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Omnicide
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 03 2013, 08:28

id like to see that tau/tau army list, sounds like itd be very fun
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autopilot
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 06:33

A riptide being joined by other characters/units is a huge misstep by GW. There's no way they intended that, in my opinion.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 07:16

@autopilot wrote:
A riptide being joined by other characters/units is a huge misstep by GW. There's no way they intended that, in my opinion.
Unfortunately there's been no FAQ since the Tau release or they might have done something about it. As it stands, it's perfectly legal though.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 09:25

My thoughts (ignore the bad puns).

It may be legal but damn it smells fishy.

I wont be accepting it in one off games till I see an FAQ.

Tournaments look like being a blue on blue affair even more than they are now.

I don't have the tau book, how many points is this unit?

If GW does give it the green light I would try to kill the commander with focus fire shenanigans or just lock it down in CC and kill his troops. Problem is getting there in the first place.

Maybe grots + archon could make it there and do the trick.

I don't have the elder book either...yet. Can the farseer still get the power that lets him reroll his units saves?
If so then maybe him with a shedload of khymera.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 09:30

@Painjunky wrote:
My thoughts (ignore the bad puns).

It may be legal but damn it smells fishy.

I wont be accepting it in one off games till I see an FAQ.
Will you also not be accepting that units roll to hit with ranged weapons using the BS chart on page 13? You may not like it but it is 100% legal according to the rules so you don't really have any grounds for accepting it or not, unless your opponent also gets to accept or refuse any rules they don't like.

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 09:54

Well, DE as allies were because of guy playing Seer Council with Baron and some Skimmers with Grisly Trophies. DE are bad at current tournament meta because of lot of ignore cover wepaons, 2+ save and general wave serpent/broadsides/riptides spam.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 10:02

Are you allowed to join a MC without the IC special rule?
As far as I understand the unit, there is:
1 commander, he is infantry's with ic
1 Ripdide, he is a MC with Ic from the farsight enclave
And 1 regular Ripdide and he is just a MC.

You can put the first two together, but you are not allowed to add the third, afask.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 10:05

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
Are you allowed to join a MC without the IC special rule?
As far as I understand the unit, there is:
1 commander, he is infantry's with ic
1 Ripdide, he is a MC with Ic from the farsight enclave
And 1 regular Ripdide and he is just a MC.

You can put the first two together, but you are not allowed to add the third, afask.
As a normal riptide can be part of a unit (Riptide&Drones) it can be joined by IC:s

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 10:09

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
Are you allowed to join a MC without the IC special rule?
As far as I understand the unit, there is:
1 commander, he is infantry's with ic
1 Ripdide, he is a MC with Ic from the farsight enclave
And 1 regular Ripdide and he is just a MC.

You can put the first two together, but you are not allowed to add the third, afask.
The rules for this are on page 39:

Quote :
Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see page 77) or units that always consist of a single model (such as most vehicles and Monstrous Creatures)
Riptides are Monstrous Creatures but they have the ability to take Drones. The Tau Codex (page 33) tells us:

Quote :
Drones taken as upgrades for a unit act as additional squad members in all regards.
On this basis, the Riptide is not a "unit that always consists of a single model" and can therefore be joined by Independent Characters as normal.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 10:29

F***ing hell. There is seriously something wrong with that codex.... Thanks for the clarification.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 10:32

Tau ignore cover, LOS and their Ballistic Skill so it shouldn't really come as a surprise that they ignore that rule too! Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 10:49

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Painjunky wrote:
My thoughts (ignore the bad puns).

It may be legal but damn it smells fishy.

I wont be accepting it in one off games till I see an FAQ.
Will you also not be accepting that units roll to hit with ranged weapons using the BS chart on page 13? You may not like it but it is 100% legal according to the rules so you don't really have any grounds for accepting it or not, unless your opponent also gets to accept or refuse any rules they don't like.
 
Very funny! Tho I don't think you were trying to be so... In one off games I do have the luxury of accepting them as an opponent or just finding someone else to play.
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 16:26

Here's my thought: Venom Spam with night shields. That riptide bomb could target possibly two units a turn and with my flicker fields 1/3 of those will be negated. If you shoot enough poison at it, it'll fall over. Killing a rip tide is like killing five terminators. I can do it. RB
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 18:08

That unit sounds like a real bitch. I was thinking in general about riptides though, and wyches with shardnets seem like a great answer. Tie em up with cheap 4++ troops that lower their cc attacks. Just getting them there would be the issue...
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 20:12

Simple beforehand put some BLOS for some units you may bring, i personally have no problem with that before i dealt with farsight and 3 riptides before killed all 3. Secret, venom spam and especially splinterborn and Rackwarrior spam would do that trick. Hear me out

Id would bring 2 Venoms with dual SC and night shields, with 4 trueborn with 2 Splinter Cannons and 2 Shardcarbines
One of those venoms has Sliscus.
Then 3 raiders with racks and flickerfields with 10 warriors inside.
A couple of ravagers and what other filler you want. Wink thtas roughly 50+ saves added altogether. And theres no way 2+ saves will keep him alive .
This same list took down 10 Paladins and draigo and yes you heard me 10 FREAKIN PALADINS ( one is enough to annoy you how about them apples). GL mushkilla. Hope that helps Wink oh and they had an apothecary so it was far worse to kill.
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 20:53

My thoughts on the interpretation of the rules is different. When the BRB says:
BRB wrote:
Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see page 77) or units that always consist of a single model (such as most vehicles and Monstrous Creatures)
Emphasis mine.

I take it to mean "in the current game" not "possibilities in an army list." I don't care if your Riptide COULD have taken drones, if he doesn't have any drones, he is a single model during play. Now, if he took drones, then there isn't an argument here as he effectively is a squad at that point.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 21:23

@autopilot wrote:
My thoughts on the interpretation of the rules is different. When the BRB says:
BRB wrote:
Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see page 77) or units that always consist of a single model (such as most vehicles and Monstrous Creatures)
Emphasis mine.

I take it to mean "in the current game" not "possibilities in an army list." I don't care if your Riptide COULD have taken drones, if he doesn't have any drones, he is a single model during play.
I can see the argument but you're applying additional criteria to the rules. The mere fact that the model has the ability to take additional squad members is sufficient for it not to be a unit that always consists of a single model.

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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 04 2013, 23:29

I understand, Count.

The riptide that doesn't take any drones does always consist of a single model in that army list. The fact that he could have taken drones is irreverent, in my opinion. If he takes drones with him, then he is a squad that an IC could join, by the Drone's rules.

I believe the "always" in that rule is written there because during the game, squads might get weakened down to 1 member left. If the word "always" wasn't written in the rule, then by RAW, a Space Marine Captain couldn't join a marine squad with 1 member left. Therefore, they wrote in "always" so you could save that poor marine's neck!

RAI vs RAW. I will lose every time.

Just my opinion! I know it isn't going to win any arguments. The Tau players can have their silly rule bending, I won't complain. When I see it, I'll simply roll my eyes, chuckle, and see it as a challenge.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: NOVA: New Tau Tactic   NOVA: New Tau Tactic I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 05 2013, 09:48

I tend to agree on RAI and I suspect this may well get FAQd (if GW ever gets around to issuing any more FAQs)

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