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 DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies

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Omnicide
Hellion
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Posts : 54
Join date : 2013-01-22

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PostSubject: DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies   DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 01 2013, 22:07

Hey guys, kind of a complicated post which could have questions in a bunch of different forums but figured it would be best here...

I'm trying to make a DE list using Vect (and maybe coteaz from grey knights) to almost guarantee first turn. Assuming I get the first turn I want to do as much damage as possible on that turn, my first assumption was to spam as many dark lances as possible, like most DE armies seem to do... except even at a higher priority.

I was hoping the more experienced players could tell me what the best alpha strike units are, how neccesarry are the ravagers at different point levels (1000, 1500), and would a dreadknight with teleporter and incinerator be useful, or can DE fulfill its role better.

I was looking at Eldar allies as well, specifically it seems the Night Spinner would fulfill the dreadknight role while being able to maintain a safe distance, but eldar dont have any abilities to seize the initiative do they?

One of the reasons I was looking at the dreadknight, and filling out coteaz's squad is that the DE dex seems to need larger chunks of points to add useful alpha strike units, Raider mounted Warrior sqauds take 180 pts, Venom mounted Warriors take 120 (no special weapon), and footslogging trueborn with lances are 86 pts... so in many of my lists the pts worked out better if i cut a raider or ravager and added the dreadknight

Example of Grey Knights detachment - 467
Coteaz - 100

Inquisitorial Henchmen Troops - 132
2x Crusader
3x Servitor - 3x Plasma Cannons
3x Warriors - 3x Plasma Gun

Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator - Teleporter - 235


Any help would be greatly appreciated, im paralyzed by indecision, have no idea what I want to get and havent made any progress building my models the past week.
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autopilot
Hellion
autopilot

Posts : 94
Join date : 2013-04-24
Location : Midwest

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PostSubject: Re: DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies   DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 10:23

Relying on stealing the initiative isn't the best plan. Anyone will see that you have a 4+ re-rollable seize roll and will deploy defensively, negating a lot of your alpha strike.

If you want a seizing the initiative, alpha strike list, you're going to need a lot of long range guns. You can pretty much use anything from the DE codex that has a 36" range and can shoot on the first turn (so no flyers, etc). Your goal is to shoot a hole in your opponent that he cannot avoid and never come back from. Bring the most cost effective thing you can and have at it. I'd suggest Ravagers, Venoms with only 3 wracks, and perhaps some trueborn. Jetbikes might be useful, but it might be hard to bladevane something turn 1, as your opponent might deploy right at his board edge.

The reason why this strategy isn't used all the time is because its a little gimmicky. What if you don't steal? What if your opponent makes you go first and counter deploys? What if your opponent reserves a lot? What if its Hammer and Anvil deployment and nothings in range?

I think the threat of a 4+ seize is a great thing. Makes your opponent make a hard choice about going first or not, which is always good. However, putting too many eggs in the "seize basket" could be your downfall. I would use Vect just for the threat, then build a balanced DE/Eldar list out of it. Noone wants a really threatening DEldar list to seize on them, and noone wants them to go first.
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Eldritchwarmaster84
Kabalite Warrior
Eldritchwarmaster84

Posts : 111
Join date : 2013-07-19

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PostSubject: Re: DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies   DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 15:18

You want Alpha strike eh. I always bring Jetbikes with Cluster Caltrops and a bunch of raiders and moving them foward and shoot away.
Or bring venoms with wyches and flat out into their deployment. Let them deal with that. Hope that helped Smile
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wanderingblade
Kabalite Warrior
wanderingblade

Posts : 225
Join date : 2013-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies   DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02 2013, 16:56

If I was gambling everything on first turn, I'd want as many Ravagers as I could buy. Not only do they offer a great heavy weapon to cost ratio, but their mobility will be necessary for rooting out people hiding from the Alpha Strike.

I can see a Dreadknight being useful to wrinkle out people who love cover though.
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Omnicide
Hellion
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Posts : 54
Join date : 2013-01-22

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PostSubject: Re: DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies   DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 03 2013, 00:43

Thanks for the advice guys!

@autopilot: I hear ya Sad im just completely dead set on vect and wanted to make a list to get the best use out of him, and coteaz being able to reroll the iniative steal roll be it mine or my opponents seemed like the best bet

@Eldritchwarmaster84: I actually hadn't considered reavers at all, thats a good idea!

@wanderingblade: Its funny, the ravager is one of my favorite looking models and I love the idea of an all vehicle DE army but for some reason i cant bring myself to buy 3 of them was hoping something else was better for alpha lists, gonna have to just bite the bullet
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Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

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PostSubject: Re: DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies   DE Alpha Strike Questions and allies I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 03 2013, 07:37

@Eldritchwarmaster84 wrote:
You want Alpha strike eh. I always bring Jetbikes with Cluster Caltrops and a bunch of raiders and moving them foward and shoot away.
Or bring venoms with wyches and flat out into their deployment. Let them deal with that. Hope that helped Smile
Alpha strike is done on T1. Nether Flyers nor flatouting Venoms contribute nothing to it.

Wyches are better transported in 3 hullpoint raiders to enemys face than more fragile Venoms.

To OP Ravagers are the Alpha strikers in our codex. But I think 3 of them are not auto include in all lists.

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