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Zehra
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PostSubject: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 05:51

I'm just wondering, how long do you think Eldar/Dark Eldar pregnancies last? I have them lasting a little longer than human pregnancies, like 11 to 15 months instead of 9 months. I didn't know where to post this so forgive me if this is in the wrong place.
Exactly how different are Eldar from Humans anyway? I know male Eldar have no external testicles like Human males. What are there other differences? Sorry, but I can't afford the Codexes or anything, otherwise I wouldn't be asking...
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 06:06

This belongs in the Background, will be moved shortly.

To answer your question, we don't really know. We know that Eldar gestation takes a long time, and that they have a similar Male/Female dichotomy like we do.
Xenology is rather vague about the whole thing, and there isn't much cannon information on it.

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 06:34

I believe there was a bit in the book about how the large majority of Kabalites are grown, much like replacements are grown.

But obviously there are the Trueborn, but it much smaller numbers.
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 07:05

From "Xenology",page 26, "reproductive organs roughly analogous to human male"

So it would appear that Eldar males do indeed have testicles. The more you know.

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theblackjackal
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 07:14

While true, I personally like the bit of fluff I devised to resolve the whole "why haven't the Dark Eldar all wiped themselves out already" conundrum (and also gets around the long gestation period problem) back with the old codex when this was a subject with no official explanation: Why go through all the trouble, vulnerability and inconvenience of bearing children when you have slaves that can do it for you?

Since there currently is no canon fluff stating that an Eldar/non-Eldar hybrid is possible without significant genetic engineering, it can be assumed that the pregnancy must begin with an Eldar male and an Eldar female, and this would probably end up being the result of a contract between Kabalites (enforced by the Archon's rule, of course), or assigned under the direction of an Archite or Dracite in a Wych cult.

The pregnancy would be allowed to progress for a few months, and then the fetus would be removed from the mother's womb and implanted into the uterus of a designated slave, who would carry the baby to term and care for it until it is old enough to be taught to live as a member of its caste. In the case of alien slaves (most often human or Tau), some genetic material from the wet nurse slave sometimes mingles with that of the child's, causing some superficial defects in the form of physical traits from the wet nurse's species (human-born tend to be slightly stockier, Tau-born tend to have blue skin, etc.). Gestation periods tend to be slightly longer than usual for the wet nurse's species, but still significantly shorter than Eldar ones.

Eldar slaves (Dark, Craftworld, Harlequin or Exodite, it doesn't matter) are the most desirable as wet nurses due to the genetic purity she promises to the child (and being Eldar herself, the process is simplified), and it is from these that the Trueborn are raised; the practice of bearing children through alien wet nurses is only fit for the common Kabalites, but Wych cults will take anyone who can compete regardless of genetic purity, so long as they are Dark Eldar and they can fight with the acuity and grace their craft demands.

This was originally devised as an explanation for why some of my Dark Eldar (which were second-hand classic) had light blue skin (born to Tau slaves), and this is how it is done in the Kabal of the Black Jackal. To me, it seems to fit the Dark Eldar character better than the whole cloning thing, and it has a squick factor to match.

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Zehra
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 08:03

Ok I was just wondering because the Dark Eldar character I'm creating is Trueborn and I just wanted to know if it would be alright just have my idea of how long a pregnancy lasts.
EDIT : Of course my character is raised by a Haemonculus, so it's possible the Haemonculus takes the baby out of her mother after a set time.
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 10:17

Zehra, please take 5 seconds to decide on which forum to place your thread in the future please.

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 06 2011, 18:58

It's mentioned in the codex that Eldar pregnancy takes multiple years. I remember hearing 3 years somewhere, but I can't find a source on that. In Xenology it's mentioned that the male has to deposit more genetic material at certain points of the pregnancy for it to progress properly, but Xenology isn't exactly the most reliable source of background (there's quite a bit of stuff in it that is directly contradicted by codex fluff, the most obvious one being the Tau that has feet instead of hooves).

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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 07 2011, 02:02

Now that my mod-foo is back, I will move this to the more appropriate Background.
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Spanna uv Komor-AAAGH!
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 07 2011, 04:50

I have always thought it was a ten year pregnancy for Eldar, but for the life of me I cannot remember where I got that impression. Here's hoping Path of the Seer or Path of the Renegade will clear it up.

@theblackjackal wrote:
Eldar slaves (Dark, Craftworld, Harlequin or Exodite, it doesn't matter) are the most desirable as wet nurses due to the genetic purity she promises to the child (and being Eldar herself, the process is simplified), and it is from these that the Trueborn are raised; the practice of bearing children through alien wet nurses is only fit for the common Kabalites, but Wych cults will take anyone who can compete regardless of genetic purity, so long as they are Dark Eldar and they can fight with the acuity and grace their craft demands.
Mad minds think alike, because I have had a very similar idea. I couldn't imagine why a Dark Eldar would deliberately use a lesser being instead of just accelerating the child's growth. Why did you decide your Kabalite Warriors do that?

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 07 2011, 07:40

@Nomic wrote:
It's mentioned in the codex that Eldar pregnancy takes multiple years. I remember hearing 3 years somewhere, but I can't find a source on that. In Xenology it's mentioned that the male has to deposit more genetic material at certain points of the pregnancy for it to progress properly, but Xenology isn't exactly the most reliable source of background (there's quite a bit of stuff in it that is directly contradicted by codex fluff, the most obvious one being the Tau that has feet instead of hooves).

I've never understood why people get so worked up about that, when we're talking about a race where the Castes are essentially sub-species, and less than a thousand years ago, one of the sub-species had freakin' wings! Compared to that, the Ethereals having feet instead of hooves is nothing. After all, the Ethereals didn't evolve on the plains so they wouldn't have hooves. Instead, they have proto-hooves, where the nail hasn't grown to pretty much be the toe. So yeah, their Ethereal is entirely fitting for the background. Remember, we've never been properly told what an Ethereal has for feet in the codex, with the current Ethereal models having actual feet as well, further strengthening the Xenology position.

Yes, Fire Caste Tau have hooves, but that doesn't mean the race as a whole does. The Air Caste still have hollow bones, after all. Each Caste has their own physiological quirks. Apparently, the quirk of the Ethereals (and maybe others too, for all we know) is that they don't have hooves like the Fire Caste do.

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theblackjackal
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 07 2011, 18:54

@Spanna uv Komor-AAAGH! wrote:
Mad minds think alike, because I have had a very similar idea. I couldn't imagine why a Dark Eldar would deliberately use a lesser being instead of just accelerating the child's growth. Why did you decide your Kabalite Warriors do that?
A bunch of the Warriors (and Reavers) I got from a friend of mine had blue skin (he was going for a Celtic "skin dyeing" look), and my painting skills simply are not up to the task of re-painting them all with normal flesh colors.

Anyways, the point isn't to accelerate the child's growth (although it is a plus), it's to breed more children and more heavily assert dominance over one's harem.

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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 08 2011, 06:22

This thread is in need of a little more contribution and a little less spam.

Otherwise its going the way of the Dodo

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Zehra
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 08 2011, 06:30

I'm sorry... Sad

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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 09 2011, 07:39

@Zehra wrote:
I'm sorry... Sad

Zehra, low content posts such as this are unacceptable. Keep short message like that to PM's.

I'll be trimming down this thread down accordingly


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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 09 2011, 21:20

Xenology says:

"Reproductive organs outwardly analogous to human male, but gamete delivery appears progressive - i.e. corresponding organs for successive 'stages'. (Spec: conception occurs over extended period; additional genetic material supplied at preordained stages throughout gestation? Inconclusive.)"

Basically, due to the immense complexity of Eldar DNA, they have to have intercourse multiple times over a certain period. Judging by the slow rate of Eldar 'true-birth', and the fact that Eldar are considerably more cautious than humans when as to when they will engage in such things, I would imagine that it is a very long time.

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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 08:58

Most dark eldar are born in vats.......like test tube babies......these make up most of the population are do all the low level jobs such as build weapons, fish bodies out of rivers etc....like our garbage men. The talented ones make it into kabalite warriors, then sybarite. The dark eldar that are born of a dark eldar woman through sexytime is considered a trueborn, who get all the good weapons and stuff, they also act as archon guards.

Wyches are a completely different matter. the cult operates a bit like a bee hive but all wyches can have intercourse and give birth. Most wyches are female, as they are more gorgeous to look at when they kill the enemy with style. the males are mostly low in rank and only are there to provide new wyches to fight and to keep the cult alive. like the drones of the bee hive, they are basically sex slaves for the superior female wyches.

the only male wyches that gain high rank are the beastmasters, who live apart from the wych cults.

about pregnancy times, this i am not sure and it doesn't say in the codex.

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 12:06

@thelordhellion wrote:

the only male wyches that gain high rank are the beastmasters, who live apart from the wych cults.


Actually, nothing says that, or hints it. We just know that high-ranking male Wyches are quite rare, nothing states that there are no male Succubi (or Archites, as the case should be, male Succubi just sounds wrong), or that most male Wyches become Beastmasters.

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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 16:02

I've always imagined that an Archon might several "copies" (read: clones) of favored Trueborn retainers- That way, he can always bring back the Trueborn via the parts-regrowth of the haemonculi, as well as having several lesser, more expendable (cheap) copies to bulk out his Kabalite/lowborn forces. For instance, Trueborn X loses a game of catch the krak rocket, and is brought pack in a few pieces. The largest piece is sent to the haemonculi for regrowth, while the smaller chunks o' X are used to make clonestock, thus resulting in the inevitable "photo-copy fade" phenomena, where each clone/copy loses just a bit more of what made the original "special". Such faded "copies" would be forced down the hierarchy to less desirable positions, such as "Clawed Fiend Sexer" and "Weapons Range Test Dummy"...
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 17:17

@Aroshamash wrote:
@thelordhellion wrote:

the only male wyches that gain high rank are the beastmasters, who live apart from the wych cults.


Actually, nothing says that, or hints it. We just know that high-ranking male Wyches are quite rare, nothing states that there are no male Succubi (or Archites, as the case should be, male Succubi just sounds wrong), or that most male Wyches become Beastmasters.

And don't forget Reaver pilots. (Insert comment on woman drivers here)

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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 25 2011, 05:18

"the beastmasters themselves are technically part of the wych cults, although they are mostly male and remain remote from the hekatarii."
dark eldar codex, 5th ed, pg 30

I never actually meant that most male wyches become beastmasters, I just meant that the beastmasters are probably the only male wyches that get high ranks. Maybe I am wrong. Well the codex doesn't state any male archites.

The succubus is known as ynnitach or "brides of death".....I think that rules males out. also hekatrix bloodbrides dont sound too male either.
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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 25 2011, 06:54

Both inaccurate translations, given the depths of meaning in the Eldar language. I'm sure it's possible to subtly alter your posture, and have Ynnitach mean "partners of death". Until we're explicitly told there are none, then "rare" means just that, it doesn't mean impossible. By the very fact that they're described as rarely attaining high rank means that it is indeed possible for them to do so.

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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 04:36

@Aroshamash wrote:
Both inaccurate translations, given the depths of meaning in the Eldar language. I'm sure it's possible to subtly alter your posture, and have Ynnitach mean "partners of death". Until we're explicitly told there are none, then "rare" means just that, it doesn't mean impossible. By the very fact that they're described as rarely attaining high rank means that it is indeed possible for them to do so.

what about the hekatrix bloodbrides? also on the wyches and succubus page there are lots of words such as handmaidens, murderesses, queens, her(succubus). All words to do with females, i dont htink these are translated from eldrich.

how do you explain all those feminine words in there? or should we just leave it and say phil kelly didn't put enough detail in the codexes about dark eldar biology
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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 06:19

Well, wyches are only ever described using feminine words, yet there are obviously male models on the sprue. It also states, just to repeat it, that males rarely reach high rank. This therefore implies that it is indeed possible for them to reach high rank, as that's what rare means. It means it's highly unlikely, but it is possible. So, unless you're going to argue against the definition of rare, to make it mean "impossible/never", then you're wrong.

Most of the IG units also describe everything as male, as do the Eldar books, the other Dark Eldar units, and so on. Does that mean that everything else can only be male? Of course not, it just means that the author had to use a gender term when writing, unless they wanted to be weird and write "it" all the time.

So, prove to me that "rare" means "never", and then you're right. Until then, "rare" means "rare". Even so, I'd say that the number of male Archites would be around 5% (and that's being generous), so of course they're going to be described in general using female terms, they're describing the usual Succubus, not every single Succubus.

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PostSubject: Re: Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction...   Question about Dark Eldar Reproduction... I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 26 2011, 09:20

How did the thread go from Eldar reproduction to male wyches ranks?
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