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 Fareers, I just dont see it

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wanderingblade
fuhrmaaj
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DominicJ
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25 2013, 09:18

Farseers, I just dont get the hype.
I've only ever really seen them used to twin link a unit, and to stealth a unit, and it just doesnt seem worth it.
My BA Librarian could do that, and could fight a bit too.

Unless you have big units, I dont really see the advantage.

Now, for a huge guard blob, say, 4 infantry squads and a HS squad all Lascannons led by a Lord Commissar, twin link and stealth is well worth it.
For ten kabalites, or a ravager?

Am I missing something?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25 2013, 09:52

Well for the same price as a level 1 BA Librarian you have a level 3 Farseer who can guarantee to be able to twin-link 2 units each turn and still have an extra power available. Plus he has an invulnerable save and a ghost helm. The only things the Libby has over the Farseer are the force weapon and psychic hood.

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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25 2013, 13:39

Nuff said! lol

Well put Adhemar. The Farseer is a cheap reliable force multiplier. The ability to guide/prescience a duo of units each turn is just invaluable, and the third wild card power only adds to his value. Victory for the Eldar hinges on the success of their surgical strikes, because they don't have the resilience to survive an attrition of a 7 turn game unless they succesfully take out the big scary units on the table.

Also just imagine 2 twin-linked ravagers with dissies against an infantry army. Nasty

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fuhrmaaj
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25 2013, 15:43

If you've already allied in Eldar, then you have the option to include Warp Spiders or War Walkers. Both of which are excellent targets to Guide with 20 shots from the Warp Spiders and 24 from dual scatter War Walkers. As long as those shots hit, the S6 will take care of the rest for you.

The BA Librarian is okay, but if the new DA codex is anything to go by then Librarians will be costing 65 or 100 pts. It has been mentioned that Farseers are ML 3 for the same and can effectively Prescience twice in addition to a third power which is generated from one of three excellent lists.

The advantage of the Farseer is that you pay for exactly what you want: a psyker. Unfortunately if marines want a psyker then they have to also pay for a super armoured combat character who doesn't do very much better than a squad sergeant in combat. The complaint that the Farseer isn't a combat character is silly. He gets an invulnerable save and the ability to ignore Perils included in his cost. It takes a specific type of list to want to send a BA Libby facefirst into melee instead of using his powers each turn.

One last thing is the difference between the actual armies. Sure BA are likely to find themselves in melee at some point, and maybe having a Force Weapon could help (still would rather and invul save). There is no situation I can think of where I would want my Farseer in melee. If I want her to contribute then I'll give her a singing spear and a bike so she can kill vehicles. Some players run Seer Council deathstars and they're good by volume of fleshbane; DE players will often stick her in a Beast bunker. Overall though, it's too much of a risk to send ANY psyker into melee unless they're an MC.

The only ONE thing that the BA Librarian does better than the Farseer is he wears a Psychic Hood. Other than that, he is just not as good. The DA Librarian on the other hand, can as least say he's cheaper if you only need one Prescience.
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wanderingblade
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31 2013, 01:17

Well, for one very important thing, we can't have a Blood Angels librarian casting Prescience on our guys. He's not a battle brother (don't think he's even a desperate ally). It's a Farseer or nothing.

But yeah. I can sorta see Dominic's point. Farseers are force multipliers and not a huge amount else, and a lot of DE units just don't have that much force to multiply. But it adds up, because the Farseer can do huge amounts of it, particularly if you have units that really do hock out lots of firepower. In the right list they can be gold. And Dominic, if all you see is people using Guide and a stealth power, they're doing it wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31 2013, 09:30

They quite possibly are.
When I played a BA lib (because he was the cheapest HQ), he would either babysit my backfield, so a tac squad and a Dev squad objective camping, and his sole duty was to prescience the Devs.
Or, he would lead a sanguinary guard or basic assault squad, again, to prescience them

Dark Eldar (the way I play them) dont really have a big unit that requires or benefits buffing enough.
Maybe a tantalus thats going in heavy could, but its keeping the blasted thing alive.
If we could field a squadron of Ravagers, I'd be buffing away.

But as WB said, maybe I'm just seeing people use them badly.
Is it wrong that I enjoy killing them?

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31 2013, 10:13

Well, they are actually not that needed anymore.

Before you could rely on any psychic powers you purchased, be it fortune or doom. Now you can only count on guide/prescience and its just too much points for the benefits, sadly. Yeah, its nice, but you can get more for those points.

Better to take Solitair Autarch or dirt cheap Spiritseer.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31 2013, 10:17

Azdrubael wrote:
Well, they are actually not that needed anymore.

Before you could rely on any psychic powers you purchased, be it fortune or doom. Now you can only count on guide/prescience and its just too much points for the benefits, sadly.
Personally I consider 100 points to pretty much guarantee being able to twin-link 2 units of my choice every turn as pretty good value. And that's without taking into account the other powers that are available. Sure, random rolls for powers is crappy in general, and one reason I would never take Warlocks in an Eldar army, but at least the Farseer has 2 excellent choices as Primaris powers.

The Spiritseer on the other hand, is sub-par unless you plan on a Wraith army. Lower Ld, lower mastery level and no access to Jetbikes, Guide or Prescience. No thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31 2013, 10:19

If you run allies list its a close call, i agree.

Pure Eldar dont need Farseers anymore, like they used to.

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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31 2013, 22:37

Azdrubael wrote:
If you run allies list its a close call, i agree.

Pure Eldar dont need Farseers anymore, like they used to.
I don't see too many Eldar lists without at least one Farseer.

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Fareers, I just dont see it YhBv3Wk
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wanderingblade
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 01 2013, 16:28

I'd agree the Farseer is not an auto-take, not for anyone, but it is one of the stronger Eldar HQs and one that slots into just about any army. 100 points for twin-linking two units? As noted, SM players have been cheerfully enough pointing down 100 points to twin-link just one. I'd say the value is decent enough.
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25 2013, 11:30

100 points for ML3 psyker who can ignore perils at will is a steal. Question is: do you need psykers at all, because they're random as ***? Sure having some combination like Doom/Misfortune is great, but you're not getting it in every game.
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25 2013, 11:52

Hijallo wrote:
100 points for ML3 psyker who can ignore perils at will is a steal. Question is: do you need psykers at all, because they're random as ***? Sure having some combination like Doom/Misfortune is great, but you're not getting it in every game.
I wouldn't say you need a psyker but what else are you going to spend 100 points on that will boost your army in that sort of way? And you don't have to rely on random powers as you can simply have the 2 primaris powers of Guide and Prescience and then take pot luck with whatever else you get.

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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25 2013, 12:54

Is the re-roll to hit on two units really that great? It's only my humble opinion, but (Mis)fortune, Doom, Invisibility (half of Telepathy school if combined with Embolden Spiritseer) are vastly superior. Twin-linking grants you:
6/9 -> 8/9 = 33% efficiency on shooting. Not bad, but compare it to making unit essentially invulnerable (Fortuned Shadowfield), or weakening enemy deathstar, or having Invisible scoring units...
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25 2013, 12:59

You seem to be missing the point that you can still roll for Doom, Fortune, Invisibility (although that's taken a massive hit with the amount of Ignores Cover in the game these days). If you get the powers you want then great. If you don't, you can still guarantee getting the ability to boost the firepower of 2 units by 33% each turn by taking the primaris powers. It's a 100% win/win situation and only the possibility of getting a naff 3rd power can even start to take the shine off it.

Even just taking the primaris powers, over the course of a 6 turn battle you have the equivalent of 4 extra shooting units in your army, for a cost of 100 points. So, I have to ask again - what else can you spend 100 points on that offers anything close to the above?

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Fareers, I just dont see it YhBv3Wk
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25 2013, 15:39

That calculation is made on an assumptions:
a) Seers would live through all 6 turns
b) Shooty units would live through all 6 turns.

I'd call it abit of exaggeration Smile And more punch "just HERE and just NOW" is always better, especially for a mobile and fragile army both versions of Eldar are.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 25 2013, 15:58

It's a best case scenario rather than an exaggeration but even if it's half as effective and you "only" get the equivalent of 2 extra shooting units for the entire battle, you still can't honestly tell me that it's not a good use of 100 points or what those 100 points could be better spent on.

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Fareers, I just dont see it YhBv3Wk
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 23 2013, 15:10

Hijallo wrote:
100 points for ML3 psyker who can ignore perils at will is a steal. Question is: do you need psykers at all, because they're random as ***? Sure having some combination like Doom/Misfortune is great, but you're not getting it in every game.
absolutely. as a primarily CWE player, i just can't see the value in a farseer now with the restrictions to casting in/out of vehicles. he usually sits in his serpent twiddling his thumbs a lot of the time so i find myself only using him on a jetbike if i roll him in an allied detach (he rides out nicely with a squad of 9 reaver jetbikes! this is the time when i find myself really loving what he can do.).

For a mech list, i find i get much more utility out of having a relatively cheap autarch rolling with an avenger/spider/spear unit than anything else. his weapon options broaden the scope/combat power of the unit and the reserves option can be handy too.
of course, if i'm taking wraithguard then its got to be the mandatory spiritseer for the HQ slot.
tbh, in eldar, i could quite easily do without a HQ. they don't really bring that much to the table in my standard mech lists.
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PostSubject: Re: Fareers, I just dont see it   Fareers, I just dont see it I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 29 2013, 23:23

I use a Farseer to twin link two of my forge world reapers they are evil when twin linked!
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